Liquid Light Emulsion on Acetate film

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Shangheye, Nov 21, 2008.

  1. Shangheye

    Shangheye Member

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    Has anyone attempted this, and if successful, what subbing did they use? Does the emulsion adhere well (logically it should since it is the base of most films?), or am I wasting my time!

    Thanks for any advice/help.

    Rgds, Kal
     
  2. Photo Engineer

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    Kal;

    The transparent support used for all photo films has an inert subbing on it to prevent the emulsion from being repelled from the support, and at the same time not discolor from photo chemicals.

    Plain acetate will repel the emulsion and it will slide off the support but for example, Inkjet film will allow adhesion but causes a high orange dmin due to absorption of chemistry during process.

    The only source of proper support I know of is the Photographers Formulary, an APUG sponsor.

    PE
     
  3. Shangheye

    Shangheye Member

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    Thanks PE. What type of support am I looking for at the Photographers Formulary? The idea is to cut this in to 4x5 sheets and put the emulsion on. I assume I would not have to sub this support? Or will I steel need some form of subbing. Thanks for your help. I will go and have a look at their web site. K
     
  4. Photo Engineer

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    Kal;

    The Formulary has it listed on their front page, last I looked. It is custom cut and subbed on one side only, which is the "good" side. Have it cut oversize so you can trim it to fit the proper holder.

    PE
     
  5. Shangheye

    Shangheye Member

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    Hi PE..just found it! This is great!...I had no idea you ran workshops. Cool. By the way, is it possible to "pour"the emulsion on to this base, or does it have to be brushed on? My preference was for pouring if possible. Anyway. Off to buy some ;-))K
     
  6. Photo Engineer

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    Well, pouring onto acetate is probably not going to work. IDK, never tried it. The pour method is used for plates though and works well. Brushing works but leaves brush marks.

    Spraying works well if you have the viscosity adjusted correctly. I use a coating blade just like I did at Kodak.

    PE
     
  7. Shangheye

    Shangheye Member

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    I had thought of putting the acetate on a glass plate and doing the pour? Let it cool and then allow it to dry vertically. Anyway, worth the experiment. The PF send the base in 50inch wide and foot lengths. So I ordered 2 ft worth so about 60 4x5 sheets worth. I was trying to get the SE-1 emulsion sent from Silverprint, but they don't post chemicals overseas :mad:

    Anyway, made me think about the best way to make my own emulsion. What do you recommend for somthing like this base...also would appreciate an idea of what EI's you get. I believe SE-1 is supposed to be ISO1 or something!

    Rgds, Kal
     
  8. Photo Engineer

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    Use the one here on APUG. It is AJ-12, I think. It is a Kodak formula and gives an ISO 3 - 6 emulsion.

    PE
     
  9. dwross

    dwross Subscriber

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    Hi Kal,

    It's always great to see someone else getting interested in emulsion making. Welcome to the club!

    I publish a website about emulsion making. thelightfarm.com. I just this morning posted a new section on coating Melenex. Timing is everything :smile:

    http://www.thelightfarm.com/Map/FilmNegatives/MapTopic.htm

    In addition to the Melenex article, most aspects of handcrafted emulsion making are covered. The body of knowledge is steadily growing. Check back now and again.

    I hope you find information you can use. Good luck!

    Denise
     
  10. Shangheye

    Shangheye Member

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    Thanks for the link Denise, I put it in my favourites for reference!

    PE, Have I understood correctly that I can buy the A-12 from the APUG site? I looked and could not find where.

    Let me know, since if I can buy from APUG, I would much rather do that and contribue to the site :D
     
  11. Photo Engineer

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  12. Shangheye

    Shangheye Member

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    Ok...found the article ... off to buy the chemicals tomorrow. Is a hardening fixer essential or can I use Ilford Rapid Fixer for this type of emulsion? I also normally use Multigrade developer. Will that be OK? Sorry for the novice questions. K
     
  13. Photo Engineer

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    I would use a film developer for this such as D-76. A hardening fix is needed unless you add a hardener to the emulsion before coating. Plenty of comments about hardening are here in this forum.

    PE
     
  14. Shangheye

    Shangheye Member

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    One final question I promise (got all the chemicals today just waiting for the acetate strips to arrive). What development times for D-76 for say ISO3? I actually use Rodinal and DD-x, so guide times for that would be useful...but at least D-76 times would be a guid. Thanks for any help you can give. What does the Potassium Iodide do by the way...it seems so little?

    Rgds, kal
     
  15. Photo Engineer

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    That emulsion uses the Iodide to increase speed.

    IDK what time of development would be good, but I suggest about 9 - 15 minutes in D-76 for trials.

    PE
     
  16. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    If you use the AJ 12 emulsion you really need to use a more active developer than D-76, this was the first emulsion I experimented with, it's actually capable of surprisingly good results. D-76 isn't particularly clean working either, something like Ilford PQ Universal will give you far better results.

    Ian
     
  17. Shangheye

    Shangheye Member

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    Thanks guys. I guess that I can develop by inspection under safe light conditions? It would at least mean that I could do a single session to rate the film/development time with a variety of developers to judge the best outcome. I have also read in the forums that stop bath should be avoided with liquid emulsions...do you concur, and does it apply to this particular emulsion.

    Aslo, if Iodide induces Speed in the emulsion, is it a fair statement that more creates more speed, and less the reverse...i.e. How significant are changes in the iodide content, since my scale can only go to 1g, I was going to try and seperate the 1 g in to quarters visually to get near my recipe size (I want to do around 20 plates, not 100)...but I don't want to take that risk if it has a significant impact on the result long term (I would like to achieve a standard procedure)...Rgds, kal
     
  18. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    No the Iodide/Bromide ratio reaches as balance point, speed & contrast can be improved significantly by determining the optimal digetsion/ripening times & temperatures, but that requires a lot of work, based on a substantially amount of research.

    Make up a 1% Iodide solution in deionised/distilled water and add the required volume of Iodide from that, it's far more accurate. Stop bath shouldn't be a problem I always used one. Personally I'd add 2-5 drops of Formalin/Formaldehyde solution to half a litre of the emulsion prior to coating, scale that down for your coating volume. There are better less toxic hardeners but as I trained as a biologist I was used to handling & working with rats, dogfish and other things preserved in far stronger Formaldehyde.

    Ian
     
  19. Photo Engineer

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    One thing to remember. Potassium Iodide solution goes bad with keeping. I only keep mine for a week or two and keep it in the refrigerator.

    PE
     
  20. Shangheye

    Shangheye Member

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    Thanks PE. I bought 34g so if I need only a gram for 100 plates, I think I will be OK. I appreciate all your advice, both you, Ian et al. Every day on this site is an education. Rgds, Kal