Lith Paper from B&H

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Bob Carnie, Nov 10, 2011.

  1. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,423
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    Toronto-Onta
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF
    Mr G recommended a paper for lith I think foma, I am teaching a local course on lith prints from digital negs and need a few recommendations . I usually use Ilford Warmtone but for this course
    I would like to try another paper that sepia and selenium tones well.

    Sorry for the digi blasphemy word but I could not help myself.
     
  2. tomalophicon

    tomalophicon Member

    Messages:
    1,572
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2010
    Location:
    Canberra, AC
    Shooter:
    Sub 35mm
    Fomatone variant works for me.
     
  3. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,423
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    Toronto-Onta
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF
    Is this a fibre paper?
     
  4. rst

    rst Member

    Messages:
    1,109
    Joined:
    Jul 30, 2004
    Location:
    Germany
    Shooter:
    Pinhole
    Fomatone is available as RC and FB and it lith prints very well.

    Cheers
    Ruediger
     
  5. trotkiller

    trotkiller Subscriber

    Messages:
    146
    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2008
    Location:
    KĂžbenhavn
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    It is, I find the FOMABROM Variant (IV) 123 is better than the FOMABROM Variant (III) 111/112. The later can be difficult to control but can produce nice very gritty cool toned prints.

    The warm tone papers FOMATONE MG Classic 131/132(FB) or 331/332 (RC) also work well.

    I have also read that the new seagull warm tone FB is good in Lith http://www.orientalphotousa.com/ns_vc_fbII_w.htm
     
  6. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,423
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    Toronto-Onta
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF
    Thanks for the replies this helps an old codger
     
  7. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

    Messages:
    15,206
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Bob, the Fomatone MG Classic 131 (glossy) and 132 (matte) are the ones that produce very warm images with orange/pink salmon hues... I've attached a sample image here printed on Fomatone 132.

    Fomabrom Variant (III) 111 (glossy) and 112 (matte) give a grainy gritty print quality that can be amazing, especially in really big prints. For smaller prints it's an acquired taste. That's the second image I attached here for you on Fomabrom 112.

    The Fomabrom Variant (IV) 123 has a slight velvet grainy finish that is great, and gives wonderful grain and warm tones something in between the 132 and 112 above.
     

    Attached Files:

  8. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,423
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    Toronto-Onta
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF
    We are going to contact digital files, I want a paper that is fast in the lith chemistry. IWT has its little quirk that I am sure you are quite aware of but I do not want to introduce it to newbies to lith.

    thanks for the sample, I think I would like to try both the glossy and matt.


     
  9. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

    Messages:
    15,206
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    In my darkroom Fomatone is faster in lith with developing times in the 5 minute region. The colors react pretty wonderfully to over-exposure and underexposure in the enlarger.
     
  10. sly

    sly Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,497
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Location:
    Nanaimo
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks for the samples, Thomas. I've recently used tha last of my Maco Multibrom, which doesn't seem to be available anymore. I've got the Foma 131, but don't always want the warm tones. The 112 looks interesting. Anybody want to post any other samples?
     
  11. Michael W

    Michael W Member

    Messages:
    1,431
    Joined:
    Feb 11, 2005
    Location:
    Sydney
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    lith_112_selenium_house027_blog.jpg

    this is Foma 112 in Rollei lith dev.
    I agree with everything that Thomas wrote.
     
  12. Mark Fisher

    Mark Fisher Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,678
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2003
    Location:
    Chicago
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Bob, if it is a class that hasn't done lith before, Fomatone is hard to beat. It is very easy to control and get good results with a wide range of exposures and agitation schemes. Fomabrom is a really interesting paper that I find it takes more effort (and pieces of paper!) to get what I want. I've never used the RC version of Fomatone so I don't know how that works. I've attached a couple of untoned examples to try to show the range of tones you can get.
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Guillaume Zuili

    Guillaume Zuili Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,656
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2005
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Bob. Of the Foma papers, Fomatone 131 is my favorite. Lith fast, very colorful.
     
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,423
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    Toronto-Onta
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF
    Thank you all, I will post examples in December . I think I will give the 131 gloss a go.
     
  16. sly

    sly Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,497
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Location:
    Nanaimo
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The colour of the 131 changes as a session goes on, more than other papers I've tried.
    Here's the last photo from yesterday's printing session. I had started with about 6-7 minutes in the developer. By the time I got to this one, developing time was up to 35 minutes. I must say, the colour was a surprise. Usually the tones at this point are quite peachy/salmony. I've never had this colour before - someone dropped a few raspberries into the punch this time. :D
     

    Attached Files:

  17. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

    Messages:
    15,206
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    As you know it's your developer that exhausts. This can be mitigated by using a lot more of it, which I know Bob does. Something like several gallons of developer at once. When I process lith prints I use one gallon of developer in a 16x20" tray. 800ml of this is old brown, and I season the developer with a couple of sheets of useless paper before I start. The gallon gives me several consistent runs on 11x14 paper, and it takes a long time for the developer to start exhausting. The change is very slow.
    I've never seen that color with Fomatone either.
     
  18. sly

    sly Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,497
    Joined:
    Nov 12, 2006
    Location:
    Nanaimo
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I wasn't complaining Thomas. I don't use a gallon, but I'm not printing 11x14 either. I usually start with 1 1/2 to 2 liters and plan my session for the colour change/more lengthy developing. I save negs I'd like to see in the "hotter" tones for the end of the day.
     
  19. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

    Messages:
    15,206
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Oh, I wasn't implying that you were either... It's all good. I was just giving you an option to avoid raspberries if you wanted to.
     
  20. Mark Layne

    Mark Layne Member

    Messages:
    920
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2003
    Location:
    Nova Scotia
    Bob
    If you're looking for colour Fomatone 131 Classic is the most colourful paper available,but you are dealing with highly dilute developer and 20 minuteish times. From what I remember of your lith prints pink colour may not be that important however. Even with stronger developer and shorter times is is still an excellent cadmium containing paper.
    Mark
     
  21. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,423
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    Toronto-Onta
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF
    FYI - I would rather have my teeth pulled out one at a time with no novacane , rather than do 20 minute development.:munch:
     
  22. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

    Messages:
    15,206
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I've been getting about 5minute dev times with Foma 132 in my darkroom. But I start with high contrast negatives and then blast the hell out of them in the enlarger to bring contrast back to normal. They are usually not suitable for regular silver printing.
    I guess that's the beauty of diginegs. You can give them whatever contrast you want to tune your printing times, contrast, and resulting colors.
     
  23. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,423
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    Toronto-Onta
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF
    Actually without promoting the digi neg idea too much as digi is not what this site is about,


    I am able to teach young students who only know digital capture, the beauty of darkroom silver gelatin prints.
    IMHO this is a step in the right direction to DEFEND THE DARKROOM, by teaching legions of young souls the beauty of the red light room.

    I will get off my soapbox now but this is something to consider , as it goes a long way to make a new breed of silver gelatin devotees.
    The analoque police need to look at this and see it as a bonus , the more people we encourage to work in a darkroom the better, pushing a whole enlarger setup is in most cases impractical, but a simple contact setup can be done in any bathroom or laundry room.
    I could go on but its pointless to push this envelope here, unfortunately DPUG, does not have the membership that can make this type of discussion relevant. Its rather sad state of affairs.

    :munch:

     
  24. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

    Messages:
    15,206
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Bob,

    I think it's a great idea. In the past I've tried lith printing from diginegs with the help of David Eisenlord, and it works beautifully! I'm sure you know this already... :smile:

    It's fantastic to be able to teach more people the joys of silver printing. Will you give workshops of how to make standard silver gelatin prints from 'evil capture methods' too?

    I really wish I could be in Toronto if only to lend a hand.

    - T
     
  25. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,423
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2004
    Location:
    Toronto-Onta
    Shooter:
    Med. Format RF
    Yesterday I made continuous tone Ilford Warmtone contact silver prints , using evil capture methods, but using good analoque historical silver negative material, I wore my blinders during the evil capture method and took them off when I was using good analogue water and chemical.
    the results is the evil capture silver negative can make wonderful continuous tone good silver prints.
    This opens a whole can of whoopass as I now need to approach the Dark Lord *Harmon* to purchase rolls of good analogue film and then with Evil capture methods and lasssser devices produce enlarged negatives for good contact printing.
    The upshot of all this is I feel like I am in a Blade Runner movie trying to save my Darkroom.

     
  26. MaximusM3

    MaximusM3 Member

    Messages:
    756
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2010
    Location:
    NY
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    Bob,

    You are absolutely doing the right thing. The only way to keep the flame alive is by not only to drive the young to buy more film but to harness the power of digital and bringing printing once again into the spotlight as the right medium to communicate with this form of art. Let's face it, printing is fairly dead because most digi-images (and even film) are now shared on the web and on social sites. Print is not even in the vocabulary of these people and with that, so much is lost. Marrying with the analog process of printing is absolutely brilliant and with lith especially, youngsters can really exploit their creativity and have a lot of fun at the same time.

    I know this is out of the norm in this forum but as you've said, the audience is a lot bigger here and one should not be chastised for talking about promoting the analog output in a way that blends it with today's overwhelming technology. Kudos to you for taking the time to educate the youngsters in a meaningful manner.

    Max