Loading in the dark?

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by largely, Jun 11, 2009.

  1. largely

    largely Subscriber

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    All of my MF cameras (Yashica and Voigtlander tlrs and RB67 ) require that you line up a start mark on the film backing with a mark in the camera or back before closing and winding on so that the camera knows where to stop for the first exposure.
    How do you do this in the dark or in a changing bag when loading infrared?
    I've searched but didn't find this addressed.
    thanks for any help.

    Larry
     
  2. dpurdy

    dpurdy Member

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    How about loading the film in a room that is so dark you can just see the marks? Does it have to be absolute black?
     
  3. archphoto

    archphoto Member

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    I would load your camera's in subdued light.

    Peter
     
  4. ntenny

    ntenny Member

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    I've always loaded 120 IR film in subdued light, with acceptable results. There's sometimes fogging on the edges (outside the image area), but I'm not sure when it occurs---in any case it's never been a problem.

    My understanding is that the reason you have to load 35mm IR in the dark is because of light piping through the film leader, which shouldn't be an issue with 120 because the "leader" is just backing paper.

    -NT
     
  5. Andrew Moxom

    Andrew Moxom Member

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    All I can say is that 120 IR Film like SFX, or Maco, need subdued light, but it depends on the type of IR film you are using. For something like Efke 820c which is the highest sensitivity IR based film there is outside of the old Kodak IR film, I would load in VERY low light levels. More importantly, an area with not much heat in it helps as well. Not all 120 film backing papers are totally IR safe either. YMMV.

    As Nathan pointed out, 35mm IR film is a load and unload in total darkness arrangement only. You will also need to cover the little film ID window on the back of some slr's with a piece of foil and gaffa tape.
     
  6. Christopher Walrath

    Christopher Walrath Subscriber

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    Being careful with handling, I have never had a problem loading in open shade.
     
  7. peterlat

    peterlat Member

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    For your next roll, load in subdued light, as suggested, and track the number of knob turns (or lever cranks) it takes to get the arrow to its mark. On the following roll, load in total darkness, using that estimate, then go a half turn more to be safe. You'll probably want to eliminate the last frame rather than gamble on missing part of the film area, but it should guarantee that there'll be no fogging on the first 11 (or 9).
     
  8. Slixtiesix

    Slixtiesix Subscriber

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    If you like TLRs you should try a Rollei. They have a sensing mechanism that detects the beginning of the film. I always found this superfluous but in your case it would make sense.
    Greetz, Benjamin
     
  9. ntenny

    ntenny Member

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    That's a good point, and TLRs are pretty much ideal for shooting IR. Not all Rolleis have the sensing mechanism, though; my Rolleiflex (2.8C) has it, my Rolleicord (III) doesn't, and I don't know if it's just 'flexen vs. 'cords or if the situation is more complex than that.

    -NT
     
  10. EASmithV

    EASmithV Member

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    The reason you need to load 35mm IR in the dark is because it has no antihalation dye, and will fog down the entire roll. IME, this is not an issue with MF.
     
  11. ntenny

    ntenny Member

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    But in fact most current IR films *do* have an antihalation layer, right?---everything but Maco/Efke Aura, I think. So maybe it's not necessary with these films even in 35mm.

    Has anyone actually seen fogging via light piping with any current IR film?

    -NT
     
  12. Larry.Manuel

    Larry.Manuel Member

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    >All of my MF cameras ...... require that you line up a start mark on the film backing with a mark in the camera or back before closing and winding on so that the camera knows where to stop for the first exposure.

    My Rolleicord are all like this. I load in normal daylight [shade] all the time. Hint: keep a friction-finger on the spool of film so it won't unwind and loose its tension [ tension seals it well and keeps the light out].
     
  13. Slixtiesix

    Slixtiesix Subscriber

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    The `Flex ususally have it from the old "Automat" up to the "F-Series". Cord, T-Model, GX and FX lack it. I´m not sure wheather the Rolleimagic has it or not...
     
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  15. sidearm613

    sidearm613 Member

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    You are right for the first part, as Aura is the only film lacking in an AH layer.

    HOWEVER! this does not preclude normal Efke IR from the complete darkness rule. I cheated once and changed rolls once in super subdued light once, and it cost me my first three frames. I'll never to that again. All the other current IR films are pretty light pipe free, because they aren't "true infrared," but still, I would use caution with every IR film. How hard is it to carry a changing bag? Am I right? :smile:
     
  16. ntenny

    ntenny Member

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    Thanks---good to know! I don't shoot much IR in 35mm, but I'll keep loading it in the dark when I do.

    Hmm, I'm not sure how well this line generalises. A Contessa is noble but unobtainable...what can be said about a Bob? :smile:

    -NT
     
  17. Q.G.

    Q.G. Inactive

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    Bob does not drink and drive.
     
  18. JPD

    JPD Member

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    And the Rollei IR filter is also a weak lens that automatically compensates for the IR focus.
     
  19. RobertV

    RobertV Member

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    You can load and unload all actual IR production films in subdue light.
    With the 35mm films you have to take care of the "light piping " effect. All 120 roll film versions are less sensitive due to the backing paper.

    I am using Rollei IR820/400 in 35mm and 120 roll film and only the 35mm film you can see on the first 3-5 frames if you have load the film in the right way.

    Best regards,

    Robert
     
  20. sidearm613

    sidearm613 Member

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    Not true. Efke Aura cannot under any circumstances be loaded in anything less than a dark room. And even all the other "true IR" films should be loaded in darkness. For the record, Rollei isn't a true IR film, because if you look at the sensitivity curves, it drops like a rock after about 750nm.
     
  21. Philippe-Georges

    Philippe-Georges Member

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    I was taught that loading IR film (120) in a changing bag is not that good due to the warming up by the hands (and arms) in the little, closed and insulated space.

    Philippe
     
  22. RobertV

    RobertV Member

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    This is the only film I have not checked out. Maybe you have to load in total darkness.

    Efke IR820, Rollei IR820/400, SFX and SuperPan 200 you can load in subdue light and for development in a standard developing tank. I am using the Jobo 15XX system.

    The 35mm versions of Efke IR820 and Rollei IR820/400 are most sensitive for the "light piping" effect.
     
  23. sidearm613

    sidearm613 Member

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    Wait, how would warmth from the hands affect the film?
     
  24. Q.G.

    Q.G. Inactive

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    Because radiated warmth = IR radiation.
    Rather longer focal length, i gather, than what the film would be sensitive too.
     
  25. michaelbsc

    michaelbsc Member

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    The old changing bag I've got specifically says not IR safe on it. So I guess it's out, too, huh?
     
  26. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    The human body radiates in the 10 to 15 micron [10,000 to 15,000 nanometers] wave length. HIE is sensitive up to 0.8 micron [800 nanometers] range while the remaining available IR films go up to the 0.72 micron [720 nanometers] range. This should not be a problem if you load the film quickly.

    Now if you were in the Sun, in the desert and spent hours loading one roll of film into the camera, then you might have a problem.

    Steve