Making B&W Slides Without Too Much Fuss

Making B&W Slides Without Too Much Fuss

  1. Michel Hardy-Vallée

    Michel Hardy-Vallée Membership Council Council

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    Michel Hardy-Vallée submitted a new resource:

    Making B&W Slides Without Too Much Fuss - Making B&W Slides Without Too Much Fuss

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    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 6, 2016
  2. Sean

    Sean Admin Staff Member Admin

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    By Kino - 12:48 AM, 07-17-2006 Rating: None
    Very nice! Well done!

    By Clueless - 08:54 AM, 07-17-2006 Rating: None
    Another human victory...Huhr-rah!

    By Hans Borjes - 09:36 AM, 07-17-2006 Rating: None
    'Finally, this procedure is not practical if one wants to copy a 120 negative.' True. A 120 slide photographer certainly does not want to copy 120 negatives onto 135 film. As far as the effort is concerned, this process looks simple, but in the end it makes more effort to develop the negative film and copy each frame separately on copy film, where each copied frame needs separate handling. From that perspective a film reversal process is easier. And potassium permanganate bleach in the kitchen is not a problem at all. The reduced contrast that you are describing is most likely contributed by light diffusion in the sandwhich.

    By Kino - 03:10 PM, 07-17-2006 Rating: None
    Hans brings up a good point about how contrast in contact Vs projection printing varies. Most motion picture printing is contact-based and the industry is geared toward that reproduction gamut to produce good looking images from contact printed dupe negs NOT projection printed negs, so if you want snapper positives, you have to process the print or the neg and the print to a higher gamma to obtain that. It is not a defect, but a DESIRED property of the stock to avoid generational build up of contrast.

    By mhv - 01:30 AM, 07-18-2006 Rating: None
    Hans-- that's a good point, but because my primary purpose is printing, I develop my film as negative first, and wanted an easy procedure to create amusing slides. A slide photographer would either fine-tune his negatives for this purpose, or simply work with direct reversal, but I wanted to have an opportunity to reuse my favorite negatives in a different medium. I wonder if rephotographing would change the contrast of the final print, given that it's a projection, not a contact.

    Kino-- so it DOES make sense that the film develops to completion once it's in the soup. By doing so the number of variable to control is reduced, just like when one prints on paper. Having too much flexibility would amount to opening the door to more problems.
    Thanks for reading, guys!

    By Hans Borjes - 10:39 AM, 07-18-2006 Rating: None
    mhv-- that is the key point: what is the primary usage. For me it is slide projection, i.e. all parameters including contrast need to be optimised for the projector (not for the light table). Because my secondary usage for a small fraction of the shots is printing, mounting and hanging on the wall, the slides need to work in a scanner as well (I never want to hand over a slide to a lab again, all come back with fingerprints or scratches - if they come back at all). Besides: the golden rule in analog technology is to keep the number of copies to a minimum, i.e. the number of lenses in the chain, taking the picture and projecting is already two.

    By glennfromwy - 01:44 AM, 07-20-2006 Rating: None
    I have a very old 100 foot roll of Fine Grain Release Positive that I make black and white slides with, on occasion. I contact print them. Develop in Dektol 1:2 for 3 minutes. The base is crystal clear, with creamy white emulsion. Maybe 5302 ? It can be worked with under a red safelight and is enlarging speed, so easy to work with. The results are quite good. They don't seem all that great just to look at them but they project nicely.

    By Kino - 01:52 AM, 07-20-2006 Rating: None
    Yep, that sounds like 5302, which is exactly the same as 2302 except for the base is acetate instead of estar/polyester. If you want more contrast, you could use one of those slide copiers or copy tubes like the Testrite; of course, assuming you want to do 35mm @ 1:1.

    By Jordan - 04:15 AM, 07-20-2006 Rating: None
    There are also slide copiers that let you "zoom in" and crop. A little more finicky.
    Have you guys seen Luca de Alfaro's page? http://www.dealfaro.com/home/bwslides.html That's where I first learned how to make copy slides on 5302. It works well. You can "tone" the slides in KRST for more kick.

    By mhv - 05:50 AM, 07-20-2006 Rating: None
    One thing I noticed with Estar or polyester base films is that they tend to be more finnicky to load in a camera. My Spotmatic's taking spool tends not to grip on 2302 as well as it does on acetate base films. You need to be very careful with the first advances of the film.
    Selenium toner sounds like an interesting idea for putting in more contrast. I was also thinking about using D-19, given that it's an off-the-shelf high contrast developer. The only reason I didn't try it was that because when I looked at Kodak's contrast indices for Tech Pan, Dektol gave a higher contrast than D-19. I don't know if 2302 would react differently, though.
     
  3. Sean

    Sean Admin Staff Member Admin

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    By bonagva - 12:53 PM, 09-01-2006 Rating: None
    A somewhat more detailed page on B/W slides:
    http://www.bonavolta.ch/hobby/en/photo/slidesbw.htm

    By gerland@chibardun.ne - 03:51 AM, 09-02-2006 Rating: None
    A few years back I made positive b&W slides with this same film by projecting the same size image with my enlarger into the body of a Nikon F with the lens removed as well as the prism finder. A waist level finder would make it easier to focus the image on the film. The camera body was on its back and was placed on the enlarger base board and by using a loupe to aid focusing you can get sharp focus and also some cropping. I also used regular film with some very good results. With this set up you can get almost any exposure using a combination of enlarger lens f stops to control the light intensity and the shutter on the camera body for getting the right expoaure. The film is easy to develope in regular 35mm film processing tank. A longer focal lenght enlarger lens makes it easier to get same size images. Some enlargers have limited bellows length and may require an extension lens cone to get proper focus with a longer focal length lens. This method makes it easy to get a series of exposures in a short time. Good luck! PS I now use color slide film and copy the regular b&w print and this results in a very nice positive b&w slide and the exposures are easy and once you have done it this way a few times it it is easy to meter in the camera and it is a one exposure process
     
  4. Konical

    Konical Subscriber

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    Good Evening, MHV,

    Congrats on getting satisfactory. In my opinion, this method of getting B & W transparencies is much superior to doing reversal processing. It gives a lot more control. Once you've zeroed in on exposure and processing, the whole thing becomes very simple, much like using a standardized copy set-up.

    I wouldn't give up on making slides from MF or LF negatives, either in B & W or color. All it takes is a macro lens. It gives you the flexibility of being able to crop as you see fit.

    I haven't made B & W slides for years, but you've made me get interested again. Thanks.

    Konical
     
  5. Garra

    Garra Member

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    Hello every body
    bonjour à tous :smile:

    sorry for my bad english :sad:

    i was very interesed of Michel's formulas for kodak slide development

    Do you know if this can be used also for films like orwo films?

    like positif orwo films.
    - ORWO Positive Print Film PF 2
    - ORWO Positive Print Film PF 2 plus
    (sorry i don't have rights to insert links (i am new in this forum)) :confused:

    thanks a lot :smile::smile:
     
  6. Michel Hardy-Vallée

    Michel Hardy-Vallée Membership Council Council

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    Hi Garra,

    I think it can work. I'm sending you a PM in French.
     
  7. BrianL

    BrianL Member

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    When I was in Florida, the person who did the darkroom work on request would produce for me TechPan 35mm and 120mm slides using the Kodak reversal kit. She said is was no more difficult than normal development. We had given it a try as she had never tried it before and we both loved the results to the point that for several years before moving to Toronto that is almost all I shot and developed. I had a love affair with TechPan as it was so versitile and results depended on the development. The store where she worked decided to list the service on their price lists and developed a niche trade and market in the area until she left and her replacement did not want to do it. I have several thousand b&w slides and there is nothing like seeing a 120 6x4.5 projected.