marks on film/sticking in archival sleeves

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Santaji, Jun 22, 2013.

  1. Santaji

    Santaji Member

    Messages:
    4
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Mumbai, Indi
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I just developed a roll of black and white film for the first time yesterday. I let the film dry for about an hour a half, than cut the film and loaded it onto Printfile Archival sleeves. The negatives where not going into the sleeves easily and they had to be forced in. I think the negatives had not yet dried completely so the emulsion side was still a bit sticky.

    Now the negatives seem stuck in the sleeves:
    QCefX9H.jpg
    I can force them out with a bit of effort but they have marks on them:
    5CH9U4r.jpg
    6ABcrWi.jpg
    I tried cleaning one of the strips with water and wiping with a microfibre cloth, which cleaned the marks, but it would still stick onto the sleeves.


    Anybody have any suggestions on how to deal with this?
     
  2. eddie

    eddie Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,983
    Joined:
    Jul 24, 2005
    Location:
    Northern Vir
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Make sure the film is completely dry before cutting and sleeving. I always wait 12-24 hours.

    For now, don't re-sleeve your strips. Hang them for awhile longer. Don't try to pull the strips out. Use a blade to cut along the edge of the negatives. Then, use a fresh sleeve. Once wet, I've never had any luck with a sleeve.
     
  3. Mark Feldstein

    Mark Feldstein Member

    Messages:
    163
    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2006
    Location:
    Monterey, CA
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The reason they "seem stuck in the sleeve" is because they are.

    First, leave the film to dry longer. Resist the temptation to sleeve your freshly processed film. Moisture often accumulates in the sprockets or elsewhere on the roll, especially at the bottom. If you're in a hurry to print freshly processed film, use a hair dryer at a distance and on low heat but remember you may be blowing stuff onto your wet negs that you don't want to do.

    As far as sleeving, my preference is glassine over plastic. (BH in NYC has glassine sleeves, among other outfits that sell them). But once you're stuck, rather than forcing it out, get some photo-flo solution (Kodak), mix a capfull in a pint or so of water, carefully slit the sleeve open as best you can without forcing it off the stuck image, then immerse the sleeve in that solution until it either comes loose on its own or you can gently pry the sleeve off the film. Rewash it, photo-flo it and hang it out to really thoroughly dry in a preferably dust-free environment.
    Take it light ;>)
    Mark
     
  4. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

    Messages:
    20,578
    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2007
    Location:
    Southern California
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    OUCH!

    I am really sorry to hear about your problem. On the other hand welcome to APUG.
     
  5. tkamiya

    tkamiya Member

    Messages:
    4,252
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2009
    Location:
    Central Flor
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    You MUST make sure the film strips are completely dry before handling them and putting them in the sleeves. Having them dry to touch isn't actually good enough.... When films are not completely dry, emulsions (imaging surface) is actually very soft and will scratch very easily. If they are excessively high in moisture content (like yours), they will stick like that.

    You can soak them in water and dry them overnight. DO NOT rub them with your microfiber cloth or anything else for that matter. You'll just damage that much more.

    Really... dry overnight... it's the safest way.
     
  6. viridari

    viridari Member

    Messages:
    330
    Joined:
    Dec 14, 2008
    Location:
    Raleigh, Nor
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    1.5 hours is not long enough. I know they may feel dry to the touch but they aren't dry all the way through yet. It takes hours for this to happen. Sorry you had to learn this the hard way! Don't let it discourage you.
     
  7. Santaji

    Santaji Member

    Messages:
    4
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Mumbai, Indi
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I rewashed the negatives in a tray than hung them up to dry again and left them for the whole night. Still had the same issue in the morning, the plastic sleeves stick onto the emulsion side and leave marks.

    Anybody else having this problem with the plastic Printfile sheets from FreestylePhoto?
     
  8. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

    Messages:
    16,816
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Location:
    Delta, BC, Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Are you sleeving your negatives in an area of high humidity? If so, any closely fitted sleeves may be a challenge.
     
  9. Santaji

    Santaji Member

    Messages:
    4
    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Mumbai, Indi
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Yes, I'm located in Mumbai, India and the weather is very humid right now.
     
  10. railwayman3

    railwayman3 Member

    Messages:
    2,024
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2008
    Shooter:
    35mm
    In warm conditions, wearing fluffless cotton photographic gloves can keep any moisture from the hands away from the film.
     
  11. Newt_on_Swings

    Newt_on_Swings Member

    Messages:
    2,131
    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2011
    Location:
    NYC
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    You should cut out the plastic sleeves instead of trying to pull out the negatives if they are sticking. Sleeves are cheap.
     
  12. MartinP

    MartinP Member

    Messages:
    1,458
    Joined:
    Jun 23, 2007
    Location:
    Netherlands
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I'd suggest using the paper file pages which are available. These allow the negative strips to 'breathe' far more than the plastic sleeves. The paper may well be less protective than the plastic in the long term (many decades), but I have been using both sorts of sleeves for nearly forty years without noticeable problems - I have lived only in an easy climate though.

    The gelatine and emulsion coating of the plastic film will have the same moisture content as it's surroundings, however if the humidity is very high then the film may not dry out enough to withstand repeated handling. If this seems to be the case in future then it will be worth looking at using a hardening-fixer to toughen the emulsion chemically. This is a perfectly legitimate way to cope with climatic conditions and the only (slight) downsides are a few more minutes fixing and washing time.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 24, 2013
  13. Alessandro Serrao

    Alessandro Serrao Member

    Messages:
    997
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2004
    Location:
    Rome, Italy
    Shooter:
    35mm
    High humidity is the culprit.
    It would be better to use glassine sleeves and some silica gel to lower humidity.
     
  14. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

    Messages:
    16,816
    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2005
    Location:
    Delta, BC, Canada
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    If you do have access to somewhere that has humidity control, that would be the place to finish drying the negatives and sleeving them.
     
  15. Tom1956

    Tom1956 Inactive

    Messages:
    2,057
    Joined:
    May 6, 2013
    Location:
    US
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    I've been preaching the gospel against those plastic negative pages for 40 years, on exactly that count.
     
  16. Chris Douglas

    Chris Douglas Member

    Messages:
    83
    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2010
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I had a similar experience when I accidently mixed photo-flo at 1:20 instead of 1:200. There was sticky soap on the negs! After watching the plastic sleeves scratch some c-41 negs, I stopped using them altogether. I put my negs in envelopes between slips of acid free paper.
     
  17. tkamiya

    tkamiya Member

    Messages:
    4,252
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2009
    Location:
    Central Flor
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I'd suggest OP to dry it overnight and try this again.

    I live in HUMID Florida and have not experienced this. Of course my house is air conditioned and OP lives in India, so that may be a factor. I understand electrical service is not that reliable and A/C is not commonly in use in many parts of the country.
     
  18. stevebarry

    stevebarry Member

    Messages:
    134
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2006
    Location:
    lake worth F
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I live in FL too, and never experienced this. My house is air conditioned too....but I have developed film without power for days, outside, and never had this problem.

    From the pictures...That looks like ALOT of water would have to still be on those negatives...like a visible amount of water still on the negative?

    I am with Chris - looks like maybe way too much photo-flo to me too. The last picture, is that dried on the negative? It is shiny right? Or am I crazy?
     
  19. Patrick Robert James

    Patrick Robert James Subscriber

    Messages:
    624
    Joined:
    Jul 31, 2012
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    Well, seeing as you live in Mumbai and it is summer there, the best thing you could probably do is get a hairdryer and use that. Even in Florida the humidity isn't 100% which is what you may be experiencing. If the humidity is close to 100% the negs just won't dry without a little help.