Maybe Off Developer ?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by mryoda, Jun 17, 2012.

  1. mryoda

    mryoda Member

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    Hi, i seem to have a small prob,
    I am shooting B&W and developing my own film and prints.
    Included below is a print i made last week, it has a brown tint to it
    Any ideas why this is ?
    The Ilford developer was given to me and was told it may be off or going.
    Maybe this is why. ( i know why the bubble shape lighter shade is there :wink: )

    [​IMG]
    Stop
     
  2. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    If it's a warmtone paper in a warm tone deveoper that's normal, if not it's hard to tell without more details.

    Here's an example of a warm tone print against a neutral grey scale.

    Ian
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2012
  3. mryoda

    mryoda Member

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    Here are my Chemicals,
    the paper - Kentmere VC Select Fine Lustre Paper


    [​IMG]
    Darkroom Chemicals
     
  4. mryoda

    mryoda Member

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    I did make a reply, but it hasn't shown up yet ?

    I am using Ilford MG Developer and Ilford Stop Bath and Ilford Rapid Fix.
    The Paper is kentmere VC Multigrade. The Film is Kentmere 400 (36exp)
    So nothing as far as i am aware of is Warm Tone, all i could think of it the Dev is going off and
    does have a slight brown tone in the gallon tub, when made up (1:9) its almost clear in the tray.
    All of the pics i have printed have this brown tint.
    There is no actual Black and white.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 17, 2012
  5. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    Is the print fully developed by the time given by Ilford or does it require much longer? The paper is OK I take it? What is its age?Try the same neg and printing at different contrasts. If all the prints come out looking similar or the same then the paper may be suspect.

    I have had old Kodak paper take on a browness.

    pentaxuser
     
  6. mryoda

    mryoda Member

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    The paper is new (2 weeks) but i am reading now that it prints at 1 stop faster than most papers
    That info wasnt there when i bought it lol
    The image at 1:9 will develop within 15 secs and black within 20 secs
    literally if you miss with the tounges or drop it back in the Dev, its ruined.
    I weakened the Dev soloution to 1:25 and its slower, but wont goto true black ?
     
  7. Darkroom317

    Darkroom317 Member

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    Is this resin coated paper (rc) or fiber based paper (fb). Your developing times seem way off either way. If it is rc paper it should just develop to completion not go black unless you are overexposing by a lot.
     
  8. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Sounds like gross over exposure by a few stops, try stopping the lens down 2 or 3 stops.

    Ian
     
  9. PhotoJim

    PhotoJim Member

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    They have it right. You're underdeveloping it, so if you develop it further and it's too dark, that means you're overexposing it.

    Even though the recommended development time for Muligrade 1+9 is 60 seconds with RC paper, I always go 90 seconds (except for contact sheets, when I'm more interested in speed of the process). Even though the image doesn't obviously change, you get slightly denser blacks and slightly more highlight detail with the extra development.

    If and when you graduate to fibre paper, the development time will be even longer.
     
  10. mryoda

    mryoda Member

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    Thanks for replying :smile:
    How long would you suggest i leave the enlarger light on for
    Its a Durst 370 color ?
     
  11. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    :surprised:ok on the Ilford website and read their PDF files on getting started, all will then become clearer. You need to do a set of test strips.

    Ian
     
  12. PhotoJim

    PhotoJim Member

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    Agreed. We can't give you a time because it depends on how much you're enlarging and cropping, how dense the negative is, what type of paper and developer you're using (and what developer dilution), the temperature of your darkroom, the phase of the moon, how many children you have, and how the Saskatchewan Roughriders are doing.

    Okay, the last three maybe don't matter. :smile:

    Test strips are the way to go.

    I typically have the enlarger lens at f/8 (most lenses are sharpest around there) and my exposures are typically in the 4 to 60-second range depending on whether I'm making tiny prints or quite large ones. A test strip will help you figure out what you need.
     
  13. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    If the current exposure is short then whatever fstop on the enlarger you are using, try going down by at least one maybe two stops. If the print size is say 5x7 then use a series of exposures starting at maybe 3 secs and increase each strip by say 2 secs. This won't give you equal steps. Ideally you should increase the times using fractions of stops with 3 secs as your base but I have no idea what you are using as a timer nor how familiar you are with fstop timing.

    Kentmere paper is nearly twice as fast as say Ilford so 6 secs exposure with Ilford MGIV paper will be only 3 sec on Kentmere but the developing time remains the same. You compensate with reduced exposure NOT reduced developing time.

    You may understand this and I am not trying to insult your intelligence but I had the impression that you may think the faster paper needs compensation by a reduction in developing time. This is not the case.

    Good luck

    pentaxuser
     
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  15. Steve Smith

    Steve Smith Member

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    Then you are giving it too much exposure. You don't want to be judging development then pulling it out of the developer at a critical moment. You should give it as much exposure as it needs to develop to completion in the developer.

    i.e. you keep it in there until it appears to be not getting any darker.


    Steve.
     
  16. mryoda

    mryoda Member

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    OK i followed the times to make the test strip and with the
    Kentmere negative it develops to black at any time from 2 - 16 secs

    I did the same thing with Ilford HP5+ Negative and its perfect
    The test print came out perfect and the Print was the best print
    i have done yet, There is no brown tint to it,

    I will scan it when its dry and let you see.
    so thanks all for the advice.

    100% respect to all :smile:
     
  17. polyglot

    polyglot Member

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    "Factorial Development" is a technique where you choose your paper development time from how long it takes the first shadows to appear in the print. Say you see shadows just coming up at 10s (typical for properly exposed RC paper), you would need to develop for about a minute. If it takes 20s for shadows to appear (typical for properly exposed FB paper), you develop for two minutes; i.e. the total development time is 6x the time required for shadows to appear. Going to 9x is considered acceptable and in some cases desirable because the development activity slows right down; the longer development can be more even and make sure you get a real black. You should never develop in trays for less than 1 minute for reasons of uniformity.

    If you get a completely black image from the Kentmere neg with only 2s exposure, yet you can print fine from HP5, it would seem that your K neg is very thin (underexposed in camera, or underdeveloped). If that is the case, you'll probably need to print at a high grade (try Grade 4 or Grade 5 if using the Ilford filters; Grade 5 is 1 stop slower than the rest) with very short exposures and small apertures - stop the enlarger lens down to f/32 or something. That might get you a manageably short exposure. If the print is still too dark even with a 2s exposure, try putting a neutral density filter in with the multigrade filter.
     
  18. mryoda

    mryoda Member

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    It maybe the camera ? Its a Nikon F65 and i have it set to auto
    Problem with that is the camera chooses the f/stop for you,
    i am going to try it in manual and make my own choices.

    Also i have just acquired a Minolta X-300, that's a manual camera, so that needs a
    go with some film in it also.

    As for enlarger lens it go's to f16 if i remember
    it's a 50mm f2.8 El-Nikkor and i have a f4 El-Nikkor also

    As for the Kentmere film, on the Massive dev chart it states 7.5mins using Rodinal (r09)
    for the 400 ISO film so thats what i did ?
     
  19. PhotoJim

    PhotoJim Member

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    How do your Kentmere negatives look compared to your HP5 ones?

    They should look broadly similar if both are similarly developed and were shot under broadly similar lighting conditions.
     
  20. mryoda

    mryoda Member

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    I shot a 100 and 400 Kentmere the 400 came out really dark, the 100 looked ok
    but i had the dreaded dev problems above with both.
    Both were shot in the same Nikon F65 in auto mode.
     
  21. PhotoJim

    PhotoJim Member

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    You likely overdeveloped the 400 then.
     
  22. Simon R Galley

    Simon R Galley Subscriber

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    Dear MrYoda,

    PM me your address and I will send you the MULTIGRADE printing manual, it should help. The respondees are all correct, too much exposure, 60 secs in dev minimum 90 secs maximum.

    Simon. ILFORD Photo / HARMAN techhnology Limited :
     
  23. Terry Christian

    Terry Christian Subscriber

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    At which f/stop do you have your enlarger lens set? If it is set to a rather open aperture, then closing it down some will get you away from overexposing the paper and consequently developing for too short a time.
     
  24. mryoda

    mryoda Member

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    Hi Terry, the F/Stop was set at F5.6 and then i upped it to F8 with no difference
    What i dont get is why i don't seem to have any probs with the HP5+ ?
     
  25. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

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    fixed too short,or turned white lights on too earlythen displayed in full sun?
     
  26. mryoda

    mryoda Member

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    Here is the finished pic using HP5+ Negative

    [​IMG]
    img024