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Discussion in '[Partner] ADOX' started by voceumana, May 29, 2009.
Any news on the re-introduction of MCC?
I stopped giving news about MCC because too many people tried to nail me down on dates which really always have been and still are only estimates.
But I can give you the latest informations on Phoenix.
Phoenix is the coating line which has been open to us for coating fibre. It was dismanteled at Agfa´s (by then called machine K). It got scaled down to optimize it for smaller runs, overhauled, re-engineerd and put back up.
Phoenix can carry the web since april and is blowing his cheeks (means the dryers are operating) since last week and we are running test coatings every day now.
First coatings with light sensitive material are planned for next week.
So if we don´t face any further obstacles we hope for a first MCC coating by the end of June. MCC needs three months to harden, so confectioning can take place in September. We could also sell some material earlier to people who are under great pressure if they air dry it only.
Find attached a few pictures from a presentation I held last sunday at the German Classic Photography convention.
Mirko, I have an issue with the re-introduction of MCC & Polywarmtone. I used MCC until Agfa ceased manufacture, then switched to Polywarmtone.
Both were great papers, although MCC was far more consistent. But although different I've found looking at prints from both that one could substitute the other.
Is it not possible to make a paper that combines the best attributes of both Great to see progress BTW.
I work with the product development people at my company, and understand completely about not giving dates! So many potential problems crop up, some little, some big.
Thank you for the update, and I appreciate seeing the equipment photos--I am always interested in various manufacturing processes.
Of the modern fibre papers, MCC was one of the most beautiful I have used in all respects. I'll be very happy to see it return to the market, even with the minor changes that seem planned.
Thank you, again.
I'm looking forward to this. I received one of the sample packs and was quite impressed. When it becomes available I will certainly purchase some and do further testing. Best of luck. Shawn
if you develop Polywarmtone and MCC both in ADOTOL/Neutol NE I agree with you, they come out quite similar and one could substitute the two.
The reason why we don´t plan to do it, apart from the "small" technical discussion we would have to undertake ;-), is the marketing side.
People know MCC and people know Polywarmtone.
If you bring the customers either one of the papers back they will look at the box (or at the text in an online shop) recognize a product they know and like, decide whether they feel like buying it now and then possibly put it in the trolley. They know what they have to expect and the decision is easy.
Our MCC is, except for a few small changes which were unavoidable, identical with Agfa´s MCC and will satisfy customers expectations.
If we were to change MCC to make it more like Polywarmtone (warmer tone, smoother lithability, different toning behaviour etc.) it would have to be a different paper in the end !
The old MCC customers would be disapointed because now MCC would tone like Polywarmtone, lith like Polywarmtone, differentiate in the shaddows and highlights differently etc. People would get totaly different results, inconsistencies in their long term series and I am sure they would be disapointed and turn away from our new MCC.
The same would happen with those customers who we promised a "substitute" for Polywarmtone. They would find the new paper also to be a lot different and I can hear them sadly sigh:"this is not my polywarmtone anymore..."
As much sense as it makes from a production standpoint, I am afraid we would have to introduce this as a totaly new product without beeing able to use an existing channel.
Not to mention that, as difficult as it is to remake Polywarmtone, making those changes to MCC wouldn´t necessarily cost a lot less.
This would yet have to be evaluated.
You know about emulsion making, so you know which knobs you can turn and where it gets difficult. Both formulations are very different down to the precipitation. No one knows exactly what causes Polywarmtone to lith like it does and to respond to toners as it does. We can all make assumptions and we know what could be the reason but if you start to change one thing, everything else might change too and you end up with months and months of sample coatings to correct this again.
Fair comments Mirko. They were both excellent papers but I guess if I had to choose one over the other Polywarmtone would be my choice, and it's great to see the commitment you have to re-introducing them.
Either way I hope to buy one of these papers from you next time I re-stock.
Your right about blending the two papers. I can't wait for the MCC, loved the sample.
However, I did not like polywarmtone at all. Making MCC look more like that would certainly dampen my enthusiasm for it.
I am one of those whom you mentioned that has a longterm project on MCC. My printing of the project was discontinued when Agfa went out of business. I am overjoyed that Adox is bringing back MCC. I shall be a regular consumer of that product.