methylated alsohol

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by ann, Jun 3, 2004.

  1. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    No, i am not interested in sipping the above as i wait for prints to wash; however, i am trying to find out were to buy some (besides the Formulary).

    Any ideas?

    I did a google search which was very funny. First 15 pages had url with either English or Irish (and I am Irish) locations. Someone had a chart drawn up for a variety of countries as to were and what brands to buy. I believe they were using this for camping stoves. Can't be found in Sibera. Just a bit of trival for a game show.

    Tried the first aid supply shelves at a couple of stores, but I think i need to find a more specific or larger drugstore.
     
  2. David R Munson

    David R Munson Member

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    I'd check with large scientific suppliers. You might need to do some paperwork to buy from some of them, but you can usually find just about anything.
     
  3. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Are you looking for Methyl Alcohol (aka Methanol)? If so, you should be able to find it in a large drug store or a a hardware store.
     
  4. Jorge Oliveira

    Jorge Oliveira Member

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    If it's methanol, be careful with this stuff. It can be very nasty to one's health..

    Jorge O
     
  5. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    thanks all, I would not be surprised to need paper work, etc for this stuff. I am sure I am already on at least one government list somewhere. But then, i would not be the only photographer found on those lists. For those of use who mix a lot of formula from scratch ; we have a lot of strange bottles hanging around.

    I know this stuff is nasty. In the 20's people used to drink this stuff when they couldn't get alochol and of course they died, went blind or something else just as ugly.
     
  6. Jorge Oliveira

    Jorge Oliveira Member

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    Ann

    AFAIK one can buy methanol in the US in gas stations. It's used to clean gas tanks or the like.
    Patrick Gainer, that shows up in APUG occasionally (username gainer) and more frequenty in photo.net can tell you the right name for it.

    Jorge O
     
  7. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    What will you be using the methyl alcohol for, Ann? There may be a safer alternative.
     
  8. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    chinese toner
     
  9. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Iodine is quite soluble in ethyl alcohol (ethanol), 214 grams per liter at 25 deg. C - according to Merck. So, very high proof drinkable alcohols ought to work.

    I would expect to find that Iodine is also soluble in Isopropyl alcohol (rubbing alcohol -Supermarket).

    Iodine is only slightly soluble in water (0.3 grams per liter).

    Of course, the Iodine is very toxic all by itself. Hope you plan to use Nitrile gloves.

    http://chemdat.merck.de/documents/tds/en/1047/104760.pdf
     
  10. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    That is interesting to know. one formula i am looking at indicates methylated alcohol, the other methylated spirits.

    Isopropyl certainly would be cheaper. But Everclear may be more fun :smile:

    I do plan on using Nitrile gloves. When it comes to all toners i always wear gloves. Insist that my students do and will not allow pregnant woman to take any of my toning classes. Better safe than sorry, especially with the chemicals involved with toning.
     
  11. garryl

    garryl Member

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    Ok, I'll bite- what's chinese toner?
     
  12. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    It is a funky toning technique named after China Hamilton.

    The print is first toned in selenium. Strong ratio 1:5 or even 1:2. Washed then placed in this strange iodine bleach made from iodine crystals and methylated alcohol.
    The print will turn completely red orange; then it is placed in a weak hypo until it begins to clear. The trick is to vary the bleach or ixer times to create spliting. Of course results will also depend on paper types.

    AND YOU THOUGHT I WAS JUST MESSING WITH YOUR HEAD:smile:
     
  13. Jorge Oliveira

    Jorge Oliveira Member

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    AFAIK many rubbing alcohols have other stuff mixed in them (smell, pretends it's more effective, etc).
    So, if one intends to use it for photo, make sure it's pure isopropyl.

    Jorge O
     
  14. garryl

    garryl Member

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    So the ultimate effect is a red-orange image on a white background?
     
  15. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    not in my case, altho the results can get pretty red-orange. It is one of those " you have to see it to understand".
    There are other ways to get an orange effect that is probably easier. Hypo alum and then blue gold toner will give an interesting red-orange effect.

    This is more a rust to brown effect that i want to create. selienum purple brown with a hint of red-orange, if that makes any sense. I will know it when i see it.
     
  16. john_s

    john_s Member

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    Methylated spirit is ethyl alcohol (the sort you drink) mixed with some chemicals to make you NOT want to drink it. The purpose is to enable alcohol to be bought at prices that do not include the massive tax in most countries for high alcohol beverages. It is used as a solvent for some adhesives, wood stains, cleaning etc. There are some people on the fringe who are "metho drinkers" with very bad effects on their health.

    In this part of the world, the main "denaturants" are methyl alcohol, methyl isobutyl ketone, and denatonium benzoate. Methyl alcohol should act pretty much like ethyl alcohol, but I don't know anything about the others which are there in very small quantities, probably for their unappetizing odour.
     
  17. gainer

    gainer Subscriber

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    Methylated alcohol could be denatured grain alchol, as methanol is often used as a denaturant. Methanol and isopropanol are both used as gasolinr drying agents and may be had cheaply at auto supply stores. Many things that are soluble in methanol are also soluble in propylene glycol, which is a good deal safer than any of the common alcohols. You will find it in the "table of contents" of medicine, shampoo, cosmetic, etc.
     
  18. garryl

    garryl Member

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    Well getting to the root of this post- are there any examples of this "Chinese Toner" on the web to see and/or will you be posting results from all this advice?
     
  19. L Gebhardt

    L Gebhardt Subscriber

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    You can buy ethol alcohol that has methyl alcohol added to it to make in not drinkable. They call it denatured alcohol. It is used as a thinner for shelac and is in the paint section. I think my local hardware store also stocks pure methol alcohol as well.
     
  20. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    I don't know if there are any examples "out there". there are a couple in Tim Rudman's Toning book. I may have to go goggle and see what happens.
    When i get finished later in the summer and when i figure out how to post them i will be glad to do so. I have also promised to post some bromoils. I have a full plate this summer but hope to get moving on these shortly.

    I was going to check the hardware store and now that i know it is also a thinner i will definitely hit the paint section.
     
  21. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    Well, China Hamilton is not really known for Chinese toning so much as he is for his erotic photography. No technical details about the photos so I can't tell you which you could reveiw for toning technique.

    I do know that he and Liam Lawless came up with this process, maybe to add something more funky to his photos :smile:)
     
  22. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    the photos i have in mind for this process are going to be very boring when compared to Hamilton work. :D
     
  23. Dean Williams

    Dean Williams Member

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    Ann, if you can get denatured alcohol at a paint/hardware store that should do. If you can't find that try an auto parts store and look or ask for a product called Heet. It is, as far as I know, methanol. It absorbs water like crazy, and is used to remove moisture from automobile fuel tanks. The Heet product is also probably quite a bit cheaper than the denatured alcohol that you will find in a paint store.