metol vs phenidone

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by titrisol, Aug 11, 2004.

  1. titrisol

    titrisol Member

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    I was looking at several 2 bath formulas in Barry Thorton's website and I'd like to try one or 2 of those.
    I wanted to start with divided D-23/DD-23 Found HERE (kodak's formula and modified)

    My main concern is that I have phenidone at home, but not metol.

    Can I replace phenidone for metol? If so what is the equivalent in weights from one to the other?
     
  2. juan

    juan Subscriber

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    In Pyrocat HD, 2.5g of metol replaces .2g of phenidone - or 25g metol replaces 2g phenidone. Based on that, I mixed some Pyrotriethanolamine, which calls for 18g of metol, with 2g of phenidone. My scales only measure whole grams - not fractions. The developer works fine. I'd guess you'd be close using the 2g=25g calculation.
    juan
     
  3. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Yes you can, with some caveats about activity and interactions with other reducing agents in the formulation. By itself, phenidone is a very slow working developer. It is most often used in combination with other reducing agents; Hydroquinone and Pyrocatechol are examples, Ascorbic acid, Ascorbate and Isoascorbate are others.

    One part phenidone is approximately equal to 8 - 10 parts Metol. Look at DIVIDED D-76 DEVELOPER - DD-76 - VARIATIONS VI-X in the reference you posted.
     
  4. titrisol

    titrisol Member

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    I saw the PD-76 as they call it.
    has anyone used D23 and DD-76? coments on those?
     
  5. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    I have used both - plus several other variations. I quickly switched to Beutler's high acutance 1 shot developer and then Rodinal. The only divided developer I currently use (and only for about 5% of my film) is a home brewed Diafine substitute.
     
  6. titrisol

    titrisol Member

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    So far I have used only Diafine as Divivded-Dev, as a matter of fact I have my Diafine periods (4-6 months of using anything in Diafine)

    So I guess I'll keep working with it.
     
  7. gainer

    gainer Subscriber

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    I have used a mixture of phenidone, hydroquinone and sulfite which does pretty much what D-23 does but better. Try:

    0.1 g phenidone
    at least 8 g hydroquinone
    100 g sodium sulfite
    water to 1 liter.

    The phenidone will activate only a certain amount of hydroquinone. Adding more than that amount of hydroquinone has little effect on activity but increases capacity and resistance to aerial oxidation. I have used this concoction as the first bath of a 2 bath just as I would have used D-23. I could not see any appreciable difference in the H&D curves, but you may. As a single bath developer, the capacity is 8 or more rolls or 8X10 sheets/ liter without replenishment.
     
  8. gainer

    gainer Subscriber

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    I forgot to say that phenidone keeps a long time when it is dissolved in propylene glycol in the ratio of 1 or 2 grams/ 100 ml. You will have to heat the mixture to dissolve the phenidone, which goes against tradition, but that's mostly what I do, isn't it? The solution makes it easier to measure very small amounts of phenidone.
     
  9. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Hey Pat, that recipe gets fairly close to the A bath recipe in the home-brew Diafine substitute.
     
  10. titrisol

    titrisol Member

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    Yes Patrick, thanks to your advice I made a 2% solution in PG
    Heated the PG in the conventional oven.
     
  11. gainer

    gainer Subscriber

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    I used that formula in the 70's for some of my favorite pictures of guest artists of the Norfolk Symphony, now known as the Virginia Symphony. I would take them at dress rehearsals during breaks or long rests in the oboe part. I developed and printed them that evening and gave copies to the guest at the concert the next day. I got my copies autographed, of course. I tried Diafine, FG-7, D-76, Acutol and FR-something or other, among others, but I settled on this one. Stage lighting can be difficult, even at symphony rehearsals. This one seemed to hold the shadows without washing out the highlights.