MGIV FB Glossy Warmtone, make it neutral tone

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by haryanto, Jan 26, 2007.

  1. haryanto

    haryanto Member

    Messages:
    168
    Joined:
    May 2, 2005
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    I've try the MGIV FB Glossy Warmtone in dektol 1:3 , I got greenish, when toning in selenium 1:20 it become warmth, I want to neutral, any suggestions

    many thanks before
     
  2. Mark Layne

    Mark Layne Member

    Messages:
    920
    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2003
    Location:
    Nova Scotia
    Ilford Cooltone developer will cool it to a blue black. It is one of the most versatile papers around-and beautiful.
    Mark
     
  3. haryanto

    haryanto Member

    Messages:
    168
    Joined:
    May 2, 2005
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format

    thanks Mark, unfortunately, we dont have that developer in my country, Indonesia, I'll love the blueblack tone , thanks again
     
  4. firecracker

    firecracker Member

    Messages:
    1,954
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2005
    Location:
    Japan
    Shooter:
    35mm
    How about Oriental's cold-tone developer?
     
  5. Marc Leest

    Marc Leest Member

    Messages:
    1,267
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Location:
    Hasselt, Bel
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    You might use goldtoner to get cold blue blacks. Can be purchased readymade or made by raw chemicals, but it is expensive.

    M.
     
  6. haryanto

    haryanto Member

    Messages:
    168
    Joined:
    May 2, 2005
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    sadly, in this digital age, hard to find ready made developer or toner in my country, I only have dektol and selectol soft, that I buy a lot last year, but I can make it from scracth any idea?

    thanks to you all
     
  7. Marc Leest

    Marc Leest Member

    Messages:
    1,267
    Joined:
    Oct 23, 2003
    Location:
    Hasselt, Bel
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Sure:

    GAF 231

    Distilled water 750ml
    Ammonium thiocyanate* 105g
    Goldchloride 1% sol. 60ml
    Cold water to make 1000ml

    *Sodium thiocyanate may be substituted at 110g or potassium thiocyanate
    at 135g.

    Recipe taken from "The Master Photographer's Toning Book, by Dr. Tim Rudman"

    M.
     
  8. clay

    clay Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,125
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Location:
    Asheville, N
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    You might try adding small amounts of 10% benzatriazole (sp?), which is a restrainer that will raise contrast slightly and also cool the image tone. You may have to extend development to the 3-4 minute range also to get the maximum effect. The changes are likely to be subtle in any case.
     
  9. John Simmons

    John Simmons Member

    Messages:
    934
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Location:
    Michigan
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    That combination your using does come out very green. I have been using this paper exclusively for years and get a range of tone from Brown to Neutral to Blue Black. The best developer I have found for neutral/cold tones is the Ilford Harmon Cold Tone Developer. Another option if you must use dektol is using a gold toner. This will give you a very blue cold tone depending on the length of time in the toner...this paper does gold tone fast. As I am a fan of split tones you could do a strong selenium step (1-9) for 2-3 minutes and then gold tone (warm shadows/blue highlights).

    If you can't get the ilford developer then this developer formula works good to get neutral tones on this paper. Make sure you use the variation without the Potassium Bromide and sub the benzatriazol.

    Similar to Kodak D-72 and Defender 54-D, this formula produces a more pronounced blue-black on most papers.

    MIXING THE STOCK SOLUTION
    You will need a 1 liter storage container and a 1000 ml graduated cylinder for mixing the stock solution. You may find it convenient to use a proper-sized mixing bowl to mix the stock solution.

    STOCK SOLUTION A
    Chemical Amount Units
    Water (110°F/43°C) 750 ml
    Metol 3 g
    Sodium sulfite 40 g
    Hydroquinone 12 g
    Sodium carbonate (mono)* 75 g
    Potassium bromide 0.8 g
    Water to make 1000 ml
    *65 g Sodium carbonate (anhy).

    Place the warm water in the storage container and add a pinch of sodium sulfite. (A small amount of sodium sulfite will minimize the initial oxidation of the metol. If more is added at this point, the metol will not dissolve). Add the metol to the solution and stir until all of the metol is dissolved. It is important that all of the metol be dissolved before the other chemicals are added. Add the sodium sulfite, stirring until the solid dissolves, Add each chemical in the order given in the table above. Be sure each chemical is completely dissolved before adding the next one to the solution. Finally, add water to the solution to bring its final volume up to size.

    STOCK SOLUTION B
    Benzotriazole, 1% solution

    LIFE AND CAPACITY OF THE DEVELOPER SOLUTION
    The stock solution has a life of more than six months.

    USAGE
    Dilute 1:2 and add between 6.0 ml and 15.0 ml of Stock Solution B per each liter of Stock Solution A used. The more benzotriazole used, the greater the blue tone. Develop for 2 minutes at 68°F/20°C.

    VARIATIONS
    Reduce the amount of potassium bromide and/or substitute 0.2 g of benzotriazole for every 1.0 g of potassoium bromide for cooler blue tones.
     
  10. AlanC

    AlanC Member

    Messages:
    336
    Joined:
    Feb 23, 2004
    Location:
    North Yorksh
    Haryanto,

    Can you get hold of Mgd 4 FB ? This is a neutral paper, and it stays neutral after selenium toning.
    Another suggestion: Have you tried Dektol at 1:9? When I used this with Mgd 4 FB it came out blue black - cooler than at 1:3. Don't know if it works like this with Mgd warmtone but it would be worth a try since you have the paper and the developer.

    Alan Clark
     
  11. reellis67

    reellis67 Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,887
    Joined:
    Mar 10, 2005
    Location:
    Central Flor
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
     
  12. haryanto

    haryanto Member

    Messages:
    168
    Joined:
    May 2, 2005
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    yes, but I've still have MgdFB WT a lot, I'll try it dektol 1:9

    I'll try to find benzotriazole too

    thanks too you all
     
  13. John Simmons

    John Simmons Member

    Messages:
    934
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Location:
    Michigan
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Yes you are correct on the fomula. It is a cold tone developer but nothing I have seen gives the same cold tone that the new ilford coldtone developer does with the Ilford WT paper.
     
  14. John Simmons

    John Simmons Member

    Messages:
    934
    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2004
    Location:
    Michigan
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Greater dilutions of dektol on this paper in my experience gives warmer tones. I would try undiluted dektol for colder tones and greater contrast. Unfortunately, you are going to have to use a true cold tone developer for this paper or use a gold toner with dektol to get neutral/cold tones on this paper that you desire.

    You could use ilford mgiv paper for neutral tones but the ilford warmtone paper is better IMO in all respects.

    Regards,
    John
     
  15. Matthew Gorringe

    Matthew Gorringe Member

    Messages:
    461
    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2006
    Location:
    Sydney, Aust
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I'd like to try the MGIV WT and Harman Cootone Dev combo but wonder how it tones in KRST. Is there any appreciable change in tone or density when KRST is used at 1+19 or similar?

    Thanks, Matt.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 26, 2007
  16. haryanto

    haryanto Member

    Messages:
    168
    Joined:
    May 2, 2005
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    thanks John for your info, I've heard that MGIVWT have a good deep black better than the neutral, that's why I want to try that paper,

    Matt, nice questions, I'll love to hear about that