Minor White Zone System Manual - too many editions!

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Murray@uptowngallery, Dec 18, 2003.

  1. Murray@uptowngallery

    Murray@uptowngallery Member

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    Hello:

    Morgan & Morgan told me today they hope to reprint the New Zone SYstem Manual (yellow cover) within the next year.

    While searching for a used copy, I was overwhelmed (well, not that bad) with too many versions with variations of titles a few years apart, 1968, 1970, 1993, etc.

    Before I buy the 'wrong' book, which one is the 'classic' on Zone System to supplement the Ansel Adams Basic Series for a newcomer spot meter owner interested in using Zone?

    Thanks

    Murray
     
  2. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    If we are on the same "wave length here", it is not the Yellow cover one. Rather than the white 8 X 8 book that sounds more like what you are looking for. I have one at the lab and will check for you when i go in on Sat. I made the mistake of getting the "yellow version" which was not what I needed.
    The other one has existence , specific information regarding zones on film , tonal ranges of paper vs film, testing, etc, etc. etc.

    On another note I thought MOrgan and Morgan had folded their tent. At one time i had yearly subscription for their lab index which was a great reference source, but of course this is pre -websites. Had every spec sheet known to man and was update 4 times a year. In some ways I miss it. Still have what was left of the index. Comes in handy.
     
  3. Murray@uptowngallery

    Murray@uptowngallery Member

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    OK - sounds like I want OLD not new...what confused me was subtitles...one referring to previsualization as the second line in the title, and another referring to Ansel Adam's method, but both supposedly having Zone System manual in the title...I wonder if the book locating service was feeding me related keyword items.

    The one that goes into infinitesimal details of testing and getting it right is what I need. A year and exact title would be appreciated.

    Thank you.

    Murray
     
  4. PaulH

    PaulH Subscriber

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    The copy I have is the 'Zone System Manual' - How to previsualize your pictures - by Minor White New revised edition. It has a yellow cover with gray and white stripes. The first printing of the new revised edition was in 1968. There was also a 'New Zone System Manual' that Minor White cowrote with Zakia & Lorenz. If memory serves that book had a white cover and may be the one Ann was referring to. The reference to Ansel Adams is on the title page of my copy. Hope this helps.
     
  5. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    Based on your additional information I would suggest the New Zone system manual that was co authored with Zakia and Lornez.
    The earlier book (yellow version) does not go into the details and specifics as well as examples, diagrams etc.

    Worth the money (IMHO). I gave away the "yellow version" and have had several of the others as I found it to be more useful. Someone else must have thought so as well, as it disapearred of the book shelve in my class room.
     
  6. Murray@uptowngallery

    Murray@uptowngallery Member

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    Thank you
     
  7. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    Check this morning. the edition is the 4th 1978, First edition was 1976 and it is THe New Zone System Manual coauthored with Zakia and Lornez.
    The other "yellow version" can be purchased used for a few dollars. This version is a little more pricey. around 25 if I remember correctly.
     
  8. lee

    lee Member

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    I have a copy of the "white cover" book. I seem to remember that there are some things in that book that are not correct. I heard someone say it was like it was written by grad students and then they put their names on it without checking to see if it was factual. I don't know. I have used it over the years and everything I needed it for worked. I seem to want to say that the problems are when they recommend diluting the developer more and more to hold zone V and modify zone VIII. I just don't remember.

    lee\c
     
  9. noseoil

    noseoil Member

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    You might also try a copy of Fred Picker's book "The Zone VI Workshop" which is available used and cheap. I found it to be much easier to understand with respect to film speed and development than Adams's book. Picker gives his information in a much more intuitive form and the language, while not as technical, is easy to follow and makes sense for a beginner.
     
  10. juan

    juan Subscriber

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    I have the yellow cover version - 1972 editon (cost $2.50, where did those prices go?) I found it very informative, particularly the testing procedures. However, I agree with noseoil that Fred Picker's book is much easier to understand.

    I used Fred's methods for many years very successfully, but I'll add that now that I'm printing on Azo, I'm making extensive adjustments. As long as I was doing "normal" photography - enlarging - Fred's way worked fine.
    juan
     
  11. amellice

    amellice Subscriber

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    I know this is an old thread but I'm going through what you guys went through, it looks like there's an 1990 edition with blue cover but I can't seem to get it, I order 2 used copies from Amazon and both of them ended to be the white cover 1976 edition, any thoughts?
    Are there real difference between the 1990 ed and 1976 ed?
     
  12. Bill Burk

    Bill Burk Subscriber

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    My exposure to Minor White comes from the tiny yellow booklet from the 60's which you can probably get for ten dollars plus shipping.

    That very small booklet is packed with all the information I needed to feel like I could follow in the footsteps of one of the founders of the Zone System.

    Minor White's greatest contribution in my opinion is his emphasis on abstract representation.

    I also have been exposed to Zakia's writing and appreciate his easy to understand explanations of complex technical concepts of sensitometry.

    Though I haven't read your book... I think any book they collaborated on would have a good measure of technical correctness, and it would be artistically interesting. I don't know what value an "updated" version would bring. Sometimes you don't need the latest book when you are exploring a historic concept.
     
  13. rbultman

    rbultman Subscriber

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    I just got The Zone System Manual, Copyright 1968, Fourth Edition, Third Printing 1970. I am 9 pages in and there are two printing errors so far. The first is that part of figure 1 is missing from page 5. Only half of page 5 is printed and it only contains the text, no pictures.

    The second error is on page 9. Some of the text is not ordered correctly. I was able to figure out the flow.

    Did anyone postvisualize the printing here? :wink:

    Is there a list of errata for these books? What are the legalities regarding posting portions of books which are missing or incorrect for out of print books? I'd like to get the full figure 1.

    Regards,
    Rob



    Sent from my Nexus 5 using Tapatalk
     
  14. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

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    interesting; I found Picker's book not being up to par with the others mentioned above.It seemed to me that he twisted some facts to sell product such as his cold-light heads;White, Zakia & Lorenz's book is excellent and a grat companion to AA's trilogy:smile:
     
  15. Stephen Benskin

    Stephen Benskin Member

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    I know, right? The version I have actually has a Zone VI catalog in the back.
     
  16. Bill Burk

    Bill Burk Subscriber

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    I have Second Edition 1963 and page 5 doesn't have a diagram, and they aren't labeled as such. Page 6 has a picture of a Weston Master III (as-is not modified so it's just the meter). Page 7 has a Weston Master IV basically pointing out the same thing.

    What's the topic on your Page 5 (and Page 9, since obviously there is some significant difference between editions already).
     
  17. plummerl

    plummerl Subscriber

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    Page 5 is simply the footnote to Figure 1, which consists of only 3 photographs. The font used is the same as all other figures and the footnote only refers to the 3. Text of the book starts on page 6.
     
  18. rbultman

    rbultman Subscriber

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    4th Ed. Copyright 1968, Third printing

    Pages 4 has 3 images labelled B, A, and C from top to bottom.

    The top of page 5 is blank. The bottom of page 5 indeed are the footnotes for Figure 1.

    There is no topic on pages 4 and 5 per se. They are not listed in the Contents but go along with the discussion that begins on page 8 and continuing through page 12, "The First Demonstration." This is the first chapter of the book.

    This chapter references Figure 1. Images B, A, and C are three sheets exposed of the same scene shot at "normal" time, 1/2 normal time, and 2x normal time. Per the instructions, a "good" print is made from negative B and then the same print time is used for negatives A and C. The purpose of the chapter is to illustrate tones which are one zone apart.

    Step 3 of this section involves comparison of values of the same area of the scene. Reference is made to image D in Figure 1. I am guessing that this image is supposed to be printed in the blank space at the top of page 5, but is missing entirely from my copy. Images A, B, and C are labelled beside their respective images. There is no such label in the space were I suppose image D should go.

    Does anyone have a scan of image D that they could legally post? I don't see this book on Google Books, so I can't get it there.

    Regards,
    Rob