Mixing brown Ansco 130 (Formulary 130)

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by michael_r, Aug 7, 2012.

  1. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

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    Never had this happen before with 130, but everything was going fine until I added the Glycin. Usually 130 is clear and colorless until the Glycin goes in, at which point it gets a mild brownish tint.

    This time it really went brown. Darker than usual. The Glycin powder looked fine. It was as it should be - very light tan, almost white. So not sure what happened here.

    thoughts?
     
  2. Mike Wilde

    Mike Wilde Member

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    Try it and see how it works. I have used almost mungy brown 130 developer a few years old and it still works.

    Glycin, as you are aware, does not store well dry. I keep mine under glass frozen with my film and paper stash.
     
  3. brian steinberger

    brian steinberger Member

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    Michael, this happened to me a few times, mostly turning it to a light tea color. The developer worked fine though. Then recently it mixed to a slightly darker brown and I tried it and it was worthless. After that I gave up on all 130 formulas as I don't like to have to keep track of glycin and worry about consistency, plus 130 is a rather expensive developer though used replenished can be economical. Onward with LPD! The only developer I need.
     
  4. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

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    Brian, I'm not normally into mixing these "kits" and I do worry about consistency, which is why I will likely stick with plain old Dektol, the developer I've used 98% of the time since the beginning.

    I've used 130 before on occasion, and recently decided to include it in a test I'm doing (which I mentioned to you in a recent PM) with Ilford MGWT (along side my usual MGIV). I want to see what the "real deal" is. So I'm going to (or was going to, until I got this brown 130) develop MGWT and MGIV in Dektol, 130, and Moersch SE-3 ("Cold").

    The Glycin looked good. I don't know what went wrong but it fizzed and turned brown when I added it. Perhaps I should try a lower mixing temperature, something around high 30s (C).

    In general I haven't had good luck with dry kits (I'm not referring to packaged powders from Ilford or Kodak). I haven't done many of them but I've had trouble with Metol, PPD and now Glycin. And in the end even when things have gone ok during mixing I've always felt uneasy.
     
  5. nworth

    nworth Subscriber

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    The fizzing indicates that you added an acid to the carbonate solution. Sounds like bad glycin. I've never had that happen, but my experience has been like Brian Steinberger's - up to a light tea color and maybe a bit beyond, the developer works. But really old glycin doesn't work.
     
  6. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

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    That was what I thought when I heard the fizzing. But the Glycin "looked" good so I wasn't sure. Anyhow I guess I'll try one more time.

    Thanks for the feedback.
     
  7. eclarke

    eclarke Member

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    Was the solution really warm/hot? That can cause the fizzing and poor mixing.
     
  8. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

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    Started at 50C. Probably a few degrees cooler than that by the time I got to the Glycin.
     
  9. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    the glycin ALWAYS fizzes when i mix my 130 ( 12 years ? )
    the first time it did, it scared the daylights out of me, but now ... SSDD
     
  10. brian steinberger

    brian steinberger Member

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    The glycin has always fizzed for me as well, even with the whitest of white glycin. Michael, did you buy a PF kit?
     
  11. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

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    Yes. I've only used PF kits to mix 130.
     
  12. Renato Tonelli

    Renato Tonelli Subscriber

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    I've resorted to keeping the Glycin in the freezer until needed.

    I have developed paper with ANSCO 130 when the Glycin was no longer fresh, resulting in a brownish developer - the prints came out brownish as well (I liked it for some prints!).

    A mixed stock solution of ANSCO 130 (with fresh Glycin) will last for several months.

    Having said all that, Ethol LPD is my preferred developer.
     
  13. PhotoJim

    PhotoJim Member

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    Glycin always fizzes for me in 130 too.

    I buy 100 grams of glycin (and already have the other ingredients). I mix up 9 litres of stock solution (using 99 grams of glycin) and the stock solution seems to keep up to a couple of years, so I get through it all, typically.
     
  14. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

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    The longevity of 130 is well documented, but that presumably assumes there are no premature oxidation or other problems when it is being mixed fresh. So while it turns brown with use, my assumption at this point is that if it starts out brown, it's no good. Certainly it is not what I would want to use when trying to do accurate paper/developer tests.

    I'll try one more batch for the purposes of these tests, but frankly I am unlikely to use 130 anymore. 130 may end up being part of my upcoming scathing review of the photographic process. Beware, people....
     
  15. Shawn Dougherty

    Shawn Dougherty Member

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    :munch: can't wait to read that!
     
  16. PhotoJim

    PhotoJim Member

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    Pity 130 didn't work out for you, but I've been using it for five years with terrific results. It's particularly useful for the occasional darkroom worker, since it has such a long life as both a stock solution and a working solution.
     
  17. Rick Olson

    Rick Olson Member

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    I have mixed the PF130 kit and it fizzed also, turned dark brown (similar to Coca-Cola) and works great. Long life and beautiful prints. Works for me!
     
  18. eclarke

    eclarke Member

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    I use about four pounds of Glycin a year and have never had fizzing except once in the beginning when I way overheated the developer.
     
  19. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    when i spoke with the good folks in montana
    the last time i bought my years supply of 130 ...
    i was told that it isnt supposed to fizz, and does
    because i use regular old tap water to make it ..
    if i used distilled it wouldn't fizz ...

    michael, did you use distilled or tap or ? to make your developer?
    i sometimes use my black as cocacola 130 to process paper negatives it works great.
    aged-stuff works great for film too ...
     
  20. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

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    Hi John - I used distilled. Not that one should have to though...

    Regarding the dark brown color, don't get me wrong I'm not saying it won't develop paper. But the purpose of this particular batch was a careful testing of print color. In that context I can't be sure if a 130 solution that starts out brown will be useful.
     
  21. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    michael -

    have you called the formulary and talked to them about your brownish-developer ?
    they suggest using distilled to mix chemistry
    since waters from different places contain all sorts of stuff, from silver to iron to ?
    and distilled removes that variable in case there is trouble with the chemistry ...

    i have used 1year old stock 130 that was tea colored maybe darker ..
    it worked exactly the same, and produced prints the exact same color as a clear batch
    that was freshmixed and used side by side with it ... lee carmichael told me of someone
    who did a test ansco130 v dektol, and they produced prints that were nearly identical as well.

    i wouldn't let the dark color keep you from your experiments ... but i would contact the formulary to ask them about the darkish color ..
    maybe they have an explanation for it