Modification of POTA developer

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by kssemenov, Dec 2, 2008.

  1. kssemenov

    kssemenov Member

    Messages:
    4
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Location:
    St-Petersbur
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    I am form Russia and I use very good Tasma Type-17 film (it is Russian film for aerophoto shooting). The main issue of this film is high contrast, but it has very good grain and tonality. By experience I found the best developer for the film - POTA (phenidone - 1,5 g, sulfite - 30g). But I would like to try sharpness variant of this developer, if it possible. Could you be so kind to say what could I try to add to developer? I would try to add potassium carbonate, but I am afraid for contrast elevation.

    Thank you.
     
  2. Alan Johnson

    Alan Johnson Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,536
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2004
    I believe Tasma type 17 has ISO 400, is that true? I assume it is similar in contrast to the former tech pan.If that is so, it could be used with H&W Control microfilm developer,that will give higher speed than Pota, it contains carbonate.
    http://www.frugalphotographer.com/info-formulary-general.htm
     
  3. AgX

    AgX Member

    Messages:
    12,212
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2007
    Location:
    Germany
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Welcome to Apug!

    Well you can give the A49 developer (by Calbe, ex-Orwo) a try. A further modification would be adding some pota in further trials.
     
  4. kssemenov

    kssemenov Member

    Messages:
    4
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Location:
    St-Petersbur
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    Thank you, Alan, but my aim is not push the film, but to have more sharpness results, for example, like in diluted 1;100-1:200 Rodinal with keeping little contrast. I tried to push Tasma in Microphen with acceptable result, but it is not the case now.
     
  5. kssemenov

    kssemenov Member

    Messages:
    4
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Location:
    St-Petersbur
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    Do you have a formulation of A49? Google is keeping silent about it...
     
  6. Alan Johnson

    Alan Johnson Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,536
    Joined:
    Nov 16, 2004
    In some developers where carbonate improves sharpness a speed increase is obtained as well,eg FX-37 in articles section.The carbonate in H&W Control may cause a similar effect, but still improve sharpness while giving normal contrast,the speed increase being a consequence of carbonate addition even if it was not sought after.
     
  7. Paul Verizzo

    Paul Verizzo Member

    Messages:
    1,261
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Location:
    Sarasota, FL
    Shooter:
    35mm
    As an aero film, isn't it already sharp as hell? IIRC, the aero Panatomic X had something like 400lpm.

    As a total guess, I would lean towards a very dilute developer like Rodinal in a stand or reduced agitation regimine.
     
  8. AgX

    AgX Member

    Messages:
    12,212
    Joined:
    Apr 5, 2007
    Location:
    Germany
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The Tasma Type 17 has got a resolution of 120 LP/mm.

    For high resolution reconnaissance work there were other films.
     
  9. Paul Verizzo

    Paul Verizzo Member

    Messages:
    1,261
    Joined:
    Jan 20, 2008
    Location:
    Sarasota, FL
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Thanks for the info. I never was much up to speed on Russian aero filsm! :rolleyes:
     
  10. nworth

    nworth Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,192
    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2005
    Location:
    Los Alamos,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The Russian government developed several outstanding aerial reconnaissance films as part of their space program in the 1960s and 1970s. It's good to see that some of them are surfacing for civilian use.

    Anchell and Troop list several variations of POTA in their "The Film Developing Cookbook." Most were designed to solve some POTA problem with Kodak Technical Pan, including excessive fog and streaking. Here are some examples:

    Modified POTA
    Water (52C) 750 ml
    Sodium Sulfite (anh) 10 g
    Phenidone 500 mg
    Pyrogallol
    or
    Hydroquinone 250 mg
    WTM 1 l

    This modification is an attempt to optimize POTA for Technical Pan film. Add borax or sodium bicarbonate as desired to control time, contrast, and speed. Develop 11 minutes.

    TDLC-101 and TDLC-102 modify POTA by adding a second developing agent (glycin) to stabilize it. The variation also raises the contrast a bit.
    TDLC-101
    Sodium Sulfite (anh) 4 g
    Phenidone 100 mg
    Glycin 500 mg
    Sodium bicarbonate 20 g

    TDLC-102
    Sodiun sulfite (anh) 4 g
    Phenidone 250 mg
    Glycin 250 mg
    Sodium bicarbonate 5 g
    Both TDLC-101 and TDLC-102 could be modified by adding 1 to 10 mg of potassium iodide.
    Another variation would be to add 50 ml per liter of isopropyl alcohol.

    Delagi-8 is said to raise both the speed and the sharpness of Technical Pan compared to POTA development.
    Delagi-8
    Sodium sulfite 25 g
    Phenidone 1.4 g
    Borax (decahydrate) 2 g
    Benzotriazole 0.2% 15 ml
    Substitute sodium metaborate for borax to get higher speed and contrast.
    Note:
    Benzotriazole may not be active at low pH and could be eliminated. Potassium
    bromide or iodide might also be substituted.
     
  11. Marczak

    Marczak Member

    Messages:
    21
    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2007
    Shooter:
    Pinhole
    or try TDLC-103

    Metol - 1g
    Sodium sulfite - 5g
    NaHCO3 (baking soda) - 10g
    to 1L

    it`s for one shot. I`ve tried this with Fomapan 100 (EI 50). It`s a really low contrast developer, and shoud get 10 stop range with documental film, and it`s really chep :smile:
     
  12. dancqu

    dancqu Member

    Messages:
    3,676
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Willamette V
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Similar to Beutler's save for the bicarbonate rather than the
    carbonate; a less active developer. A typical formula for highly
    compensating developers save for that low level of activity.
    Even greater compensation can be had from FX-1. Note
    a low level of the developing agent metol is usual;
    ie, used very dilute.

    For a Very simple developer try 1 gram metol + 10 grams
    of sodium sulfite to make one liter; actually a D-23 variant.
    For starters, half that liter per roll. As little as a quarter
    liter should do but will take some time. Dan
     
  13. kssemenov

    kssemenov Member

    Messages:
    4
    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2008
    Location:
    St-Petersbur
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    Thank you to all. I need to say I used for Tasma D-23 in different dilutions, X-tol and Rodinal. The contrast was still high, and pull up to 200ISO was needed. And only with POTA I got good result. So thank you for recipets of modified POTA I will try them.