More d2 questions?

Discussion in 'Enlarging' started by Bruce Appel, Feb 27, 2006.

  1. Bruce Appel

    Bruce Appel Member

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    Okay, got my alignment issues solved, thanks to help here. Thanks to all.
    But, more problems. I have only the 4X5 condensers in my old d2, and when I put the flat lens board with an 80mm lens on, I get enormous light fall off in the corners of a 2X2 negative. I have read conflicting things. Some say the 4X5 condensers work ok with the shorter lenses, others say not. In my case they do not seem to work. Or is there something else obvious ( and stupid), I may be missing?
    I tend to think that I am missing something, as the guy I bought the enlarger from was a retired professional ( now dead), who said he did all his printing from 35-4X5 with the one condenser set. Surely he didn't use the 135mm lens for all formats?
     
  2. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

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    I would guess that he did.
     
  3. Bruce Appel

    Bruce Appel Member

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    That is my fear. It looks like it will cost more to get the right condensors than I paid for the whole rig. I have an old cold light head from a beselar 23c, and I may see if I can figure out how to adapt it on there for doing mf stuff.
     
  4. Bruce Appel

    Bruce Appel Member

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    That is my fear. It looks like it will cost more to get the right condensers than I paid for the whole rig. I have an old cold light head from a beselar 23c, and I may see if I can figure out how to adapt it on there for doing mf stuff.
     
  5. SteveH

    SteveH Member

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    I am abit confused here. Only the 4x5 condensors ? The same condensors do all the work, it just depends on what slot they are located in in the filter bin.
    For example, if using a 150mm lens, you completely remove the tray condensor.
    For using a 135mm lens, you put the tray condensor in the top slot
    For using 105-90mm lens, you put the tray condensor in the middle slot
    For using 80-50mm lens, you put the tray in the bottom slot

    Hope this clears that up.
     
  6. agGNOME

    agGNOME Member

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    Sounds like your missing the movable tray condensor. If so, you should use the 150 lens (intended for the 4x5 format with the moving condensor removed) with your medium format neg.s intead of your 80. This will cure the light falloff issue, but you're going to have raise the head to greater heights for an equivalent size print than you would with the proper condensor/lens set. The light will be less intense as well, but not a huge issue.
     
  7. GregT.

    GregT. Member

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    I believe the following to be correct; If not, I'm sure someone will let us all know fairly soon:

    Check the side of your enlarger's lamphouse. There should be a plate that tells you what type lamphouse you have.

    If it says Lamphouse D you have a D2 enlarger, won't have a 3rd (4-11/16 inch) variable condenser and will require the 3.5 inch two condenser set for your 80mm lens.

    If the plate says Lamphouse DV, then you have (the newer :wink: ) D2V, which means you should have accomodations for the variable condenser, and should have a 4-11/16 condenser in addition to the 6.5 inch two condenser set.

    Either way, if you're missing something, probably the only place you'll be able to find one new and quickly is through Harry Taylor at Classic Enlargers Its probably going to cost a few bucks, however.
     
  8. Donald Qualls

    Donald Qualls Member

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    Okay, let's clear a little confusion. There are two version of D-2. The basic D-2 has different condenser sets for each lens focal length -- the idea is that the condenser ought to focus the light source onto the lens, more or less. The D-2V has a "variable condenser" in which two main lenses are fixed, with a third movable and removable; it's used in different positions for different focal lengths, and removed entirely for 135-150 mm lenses used on 4x5.

    If you have a D-2V (it'll have a door above the negative carrier with the condensers behind it), and the smaller third lens is missing, you're stuck with the light focused at the correct distance for 135-150 mm lenses -- but you only need the small lens, not a full set, and any concenser glass the correct diameter and focal length will work (it doesn't have to be from Simmon Omega). If you've got a D-2 (no V), and have only the longest "4x5" condenser set, then you'd need the additional condenser sets for whatever shorter lenses you might want to use -- 6x9 (105 mm), 6x6/6x7 (75-90 mm), and 35 mm (50 mm) will each have their own set with this setup (which is why the Variable Condenser version was created -- LOTS cheaper for the multi-format worker).

    (edit: looks like someone else said pretty much the same thing at the same time -- happens around here)
     
  9. agGNOME

    agGNOME Member

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    Looks like you've got the info. you need to figure out if you're missing something.
    Just wanted to mention that I recently saw a large stock of various individual Omega parts listed on ebay from multiple sellers. Someone here may have spare parts as well. :wink:
     
  10. Jim Jones

    Jim Jones Subscriber

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    After a darkroom fire, the first replacement enlarger available was a 60-year-old DeJUR 4x5 condenser model. To use it with 35mm I had to improvise a 3.5 inch tall chimney to fit between the bottom 4x5 condenser and a 35mm film carrier. It works well enough to still be in use, almost 20 years later. It's been decades since I've used an Omega 4x5, and don't know if this shortcut works on the Omega. If it does, the chimney should be about an inch shorter.
     
  11. glennfromwy

    glennfromwy Member

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    I think you need to get your lens farther from the negative. Have you tried mounting your 80mm lens on the 135 cone? That may work or it could be too far away. You may need a cone about half as deep. I can get everything from 35mm to 4X5 out of my fixed condenser D-2, but it takes a bit of imagination. On a flat board, I have to use a 75mm lens for 35mm negs. You could probable come close to getting an 8X8 print using your 135mm lens. Maybe 10X10 if the column is high enough. I'll put a square neg in mine tomorrow and see what I get.
     
  12. Bruce Appel

    Bruce Appel Member

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    To clarify, I do not have the variable condenser head, but the older single condenser. I have been doing 2X2 with the long lens, and it works, but it is limiting ,not just in how big you can go, but when you do crank it on up, the easel ends up way up to, and sometimes almost hanging over the edge of the baseboard.
    I tried the 80 on the cone that that the 135 is on, and got huge fall off, so i tried a flat board, actually not completely flat but with a cone of about 1/4 inch, with the same results. So, my conclusion is that contrary to what some have written, you really do need the correct condenser. Bummer since they don't seem to easy to find, and are be pretty spendy when you do.
    A better solution in my case may be to just build a table for the enlarger with a drop bed, so I can get more height, and better centering of the easel, and just use the 135 with the condensers that I've got.
    My suspicion is that people did exactly that sort of thing when these were new, as you see a lot of these enlargers with the same focal length lens/condenser combo. I just wish the guy I got mine from was still around to ask how he did it.
     
  13. Dan Henderson

    Dan Henderson Member

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    Bruce: I bought what ended up being a good set of the medium sized condensers for my old D2, and a really good Schneider-Companon 80 mm lens so that I could 2 1/4" negs. I bought both from Ebay; I don't recall what I paid for the condensers, but the lens was ridiculously cheap. Because of ceiling height I could not use the 6" condensers and long lens. Yes, I had to spend some money, but the prints that come from it are worth the cost. If you don't trust your luck on Ebay, Harry's Classic Enlargers sells condenser sets for I believe $220 a set. To my mind, its money well spent to get a D2 set up the right way.
     
  14. r-brian

    r-brian Member

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    Here's another link that explains the Omega line of enlargers.

    http://www.khbphotografix.com/omega/

    I have a DII and did use a 75mm with the 6 1/2 condenser set. I really did not have that much trouble. Try mounting your 80mm on a flat board, not the small cone that you have now. My 75mm and now my 80mm are mounted on the flat board. Even my 90mm is mounted on a flat board. KHB Photographix does not even list that little cone as an accessory for the DII-D2's. The ligh- fall off may be from the cone, not from the condenser.

    I looked for a set a medium format condensers on Ebay. I eventually got a variable condenser kit for about $50. I feel Harry's prices are way, way out of line. The old DII's had a 4 condenser set. Omega eventually replaced the 4 1/2" and 5" with the 4 11/16" one. Check out the link I provided, a couple of years ago when I was looking they still had variable condenser kits.

    Brian
     
  15. r-brian

    r-brian Member

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    I did some fast checking on the KHB site, the 1 1/2" cone was made for the D3 enlarger. Mount your lens on a flat board.

    Brian
     
  16. mmcclellan

    mmcclellan Subscriber

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    I don't want to risk raising a hot discussion here, but an easy way to avoid all of this is just to get rid of the condensers entirely and go with a cold light. I bought a wonderful old D2 on eBay for about $150, got a gorgeous cold light for another $100, and could not possibly be happier with what I have. No need to change anything for different formats except lenses and you have the advantages of cold light printing, stable light output, little or no color change, etc.
     
  17. Bruce Appel

    Bruce Appel Member

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    I tried a flat board, no go. A cold light may be the best solution. I used one for years on my beselar 23cc and really liked it. Magic it was not, but I did like the prints I made with it.
    I have an inquiry into aristo right now to see if I can use the same set up, but change the lamp to one that will cover 4X5. I may end up just adapting the cold light I've got, use the condesers for 4X5.
    I also noticed in my playing, that if I raise the condenser off the carrier I can get even coverage. Maybe I need to take a light meter and measure how high I need to be to get even coverage, and then make a collar that length.
    Fun stuff.
     
  18. Bruce Appel

    Bruce Appel Member

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    Solution found. I made a collar out of cardboard that goes around the condenser housing. It is spaced to make the condenser assembly ride 1.25 inches higher than it normally does. With my spotmeter, I measure less than 1/4 stop falloff at the edges. That may be optimistic, my meter is less than ideal for this sort of thing. The only downside I can see is that the whole image is about 2 stops less. I can live with that. Now I will poke around and find a piece of metal to make a collar.
    Any reason this shouldn't work?
     
  19. GregT.

    GregT. Member

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    You could replace the 75W PH-211 lamp with a 150W PH-212, but that will generate enough heat to require using heat absorbing glass. Freestyle Photo is one source for these lamps.