More grain in pull processing

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Madr, Mar 2, 2013.

  1. Madr

    Madr Member

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    Hi

    I Just dicovered the greatness about pull processing.

    But i miss some grain, which I love as a trademark of analog photo.

    At the moment i shoot Fomapan 400 action as N-1 to N-3 and process it i R09 one shot.
    Does anybody know a more gainy combo in pull processes, or is there a little chemical trick to ad more grain.

    Regard
    Martin
     
  2. Роберт

    Роберт Member

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    More agitation and a higher temperature will increase the grain. But for the density you have to compensate for both items.
     
  3. Bill Burk

    Bill Burk Subscriber

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  4. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    Kodak D163 gives much worse (ie bigger) grain than D72/Dektol but I don't think it was ever sold in the US, it was once sold in the UK instead of D72/Dektol as a Universal/Paper developer.

    D72 was actually formulated as a film developer and doesn't give coarse grain with some modern films. It's a case of trying and experimenting beraing in mind choice of emulsion.

    Ian
     
  5. Madr

    Madr Member

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    thanks for the link, interesting reading.

    Tempature, i try that next week. Thanks.
    Looks like I better order some dektol.

    M
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 2, 2013
  6. ic-racer

    ic-racer Member

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    Develop even less time, such that you need to print on grade 5 or even Lith. That will augment the grain visible in your pints quite a bit.
     
  7. brucemuir

    brucemuir Member

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    Foma 400+Rodinal= not enough grain for ya??

    I though Foma400 had a decent amount of grain even in D76. (for me)

    Like a few say here, I bet Dektol gets you to where you wanna be.

    I think Rodinal at a higher temp will help considering you already have that.
    I haven't tried it myself but have heard on these boards if I'm not mistaken.

    Happy shooting.
     
  8. Bill Burk

    Bill Burk Subscriber

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    I was reading in "The Keepers of Light" that reticulation (in one of the processes being described) is caused by the Gelatin drying at a higher heat than its melting point (and being constrained from swelling/contracting where attached to base. I've never had reticulation because I tend to process everything at 68 or thereabouts.

    But reticulation may add to the grain you are looking for. Taking the suggestion, then to cause reticulation, maybe it would work to put the film in very warm water, 135-degrees F or so, then dry it in a very warm chamber, 135-degrees or so.
     
  9. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    Reticulation produces a very distinctive worm-like pattern. It would depend on the amount of magnification of the print whether this pattern would be seen as increased grain. The more magnificatrion the more the pattern is emphasised.
     
  10. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    If you have a system and like where you are and just want bigger grain, instead of having to experiment with all new stuff, just go down a size in format, hopefully you are shooting 4x5 or 120 ... if you shoot 35mm ... well... I guess my suggestion doesn't work haha.
     
  11. Ronald Moravec

    Ronald Moravec Member

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    Photoshop? Grain screen.

    I been advocating pull processing for decades to get more shadow detail and less grain. Thank you for the help .

    But to more directly answer the question, Delta 400 is beautiful film in Xtol or DDX. My old standby D76 gives horrid grain. I refuse to use a developer that does not show age, so I gave up on Delta 400.
     
  12. Rudeofus

    Rudeofus Subscriber

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    Martin, before you follow the advice with Dektol and higher temperatures: be aware that these techniques most likely diminish the low contrast effect you were looking for to begin with.

    If you want the same tonal result but more grain, you need to crop your image. Use a shorter focal length than you would normally choose and use only part of the negative for enlargement. If you use the center region of your negative area, you use the sharpest region of your lens, so your images will look just as sharp.
     
  13. Madr

    Madr Member

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    Thanks you gave me ideas to new experiments.

    The crop image idea have I already tried, and i works. But that way i Loose the border of the negative. And i kind of like the border, especially i 4x5 format.

    Ill try the other things out and see what happens with the contrast.
     
  14. Bill Burk

    Bill Burk Subscriber

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    It is true that developing film in Dektol can lead to very high Contrast Index, for example I show CI over 1.2 in Dektol 1:2 when I once grabbed the wrong bottle. But deliberately developing in Dektol can lead to low CI. In my test I diluted 1:9 to give me a reasonable development time.

    PE, a subscriber here, tipped me off that the old "rule of thumb" is to develop for as many minutes as you dilute Dektol. So following this rule of thumb dilution of 1:6 would be for 5 minutes or 1:9 to give 9 minutes developing time.

    Here is more information about the test I performed: My test was 35mm Tri-X in Dektol 1:9 at 68-degrees F

    4 min - CI 0.42

    5 min - CI 0.50

    7 min - CI 0.55

    9 min - CI 0.67
     
  15. Rudeofus

    Rudeofus Subscriber

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    Wait a sec: you want visible grain with a 4x5" negative ???? I'm not sure Dektol can give you that unless you enlarge to rather big sizes ...
     
  16. Madr

    Madr Member

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    Mostly i shoot 120mm, and there i like the border to.