multigrade papers & toning

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by janjohansson, Feb 12, 2005.

  1. janjohansson

    janjohansson Member

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    Hello,

    I have tried a few multigrade papers and have found it hard toning most of them. At this point i know of 1 paper which tones easily and beautifully. FinePrint made by Croatian Fotokemika. However, to my knowledge it is only available as RC-paper, not a pure fiberbase.

    I now ask for advice on what fibre-base papers are there available which also are easy toning?

    Thanks in advance
     
  2. Peter Schrager

    Peter Schrager Subscriber

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    Toned FB

    The current crop of VC papers are hard to tone. The exception is Forte. It will tone very well in selenium. Almost too well so you have to watch it carefully or dilute more. The graded Ilford papers will also tone beautifully. You can push them to a warm or cold tone if you want.
    Regards, Peter
     
  3. Mongo

    Mongo Member

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    If you're willing to take a chance on it, the Adorama house brand warm tone paper tones more easily than anything else I've tried. I have not tried their neutral tone so I can't speak to that, but the warm tone has been a real treat for toning.
     
  4. Ryuji

    Ryuji Member

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    Which toner do you use and what hue shift are you looking for?

    I use AGFA Multicontrast Classic and Premium, and while they don't change hue much in KRST 1:10, they respond very well to selenium-polysulfide and polysulfide toners very well. So does Fortezo.
     
  5. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    All Multigrade type papers will tone well.

    However the effect of Selenium toning can only be seen properly with Chloro-Bromide papers, Warm tone papers. Selenium toning bromide papers will increase archival permanence and add a little to the Dmax but the effect will be hard to detect.

    If you want to tone Bromide papers then you need to use different toners, there are plenty of Formulæ available.

    Fotokemia do produce a Warmtone FB paper it's available via Fotoimpex in Berlin (Germany). Its in their PDF cataloge:
    http://www.fotoimpex.de/catalogus_novus_impexus_compressus.pdf
     
  6. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    As Ian Grant said, Fotokemika also makes a VC FB paper, which in my experience behaves just like the RC paper.

    I have also found Bergger VC CB to tone well - maybe even "well to enthusiastically". Same for MACO Expo RF.
     
  7. chrisg

    chrisg Member

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    I may be looking for different effects than you are, but I find Ilford MGIV and Oriental Seagull both tone very readily in selenium. I'm generally not looking for a color shift, mainly just elimination of an hint of yellow or yellow-green in the highlights (more an issue with MGIV than Seagull) or a deepening of blacks (more significant in Seagull than MGIV). I use Kodak Rapid Selenium - typically 1+9 at 68-70 deg F. With a fresh batch, prints take on a decidely eggplant tone in the shadows after 4-5 minutes.

    Chris
     
  8. JackRosa

    JackRosa Member

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    If you favor neutral tone (vs. warm tone), Forte tones great.
     
  9. janjohansson

    janjohansson Member

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    I want to thank you all for the information i have obtained.
    Now i have a few ideas of what to try next concerning papers.
    I also value the lesson that papers not responding much to for instance KRST may well be toned by selenium toner of diffrent formulation.

    Thanks alot.
     
  10. Gary Grenell

    Gary Grenell Member

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    Toning Oriental VC in Selenium

    I am having a different experience than you, Chris. I am soaking my Oriental VC (NOT warmtone), in Selenium 1:9 and leaving it there for over ten minutes. It doesn;t even begin to move toward purplish. I look at a comparison print from 6 years ago which was toned in Brilliant VC (again, cold tone paper), and it certainly moves toward purple. I cannot get my current crop of Oriental VC to accept selenium adequately. BTW, I dilute it in Permawash, not water.

    Gary
     
  11. Ian Grant

    Ian Grant Subscriber

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    You shouldn't really be expecting to see a colour change if it's a bromide paper, all you should see is a very slight increase in D-max.

    Paper emulsions differ from the Cold blacks of a pure bromide paper to the warmths which can be extracted from a chloride paper. Other papers containing Chloride as well as Bromide will differ depening on the proportions so a Bromo-chloride paper - ie Bromide with a small amount of Chloride with only show a very slight shift in Selenium. Warm-tone papers are Chloro-bromide papers so will give rise to far more substantial colour shifts in Selenium toner.
     
  12. Gary Grenell

    Gary Grenell Member

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    Here I am replying to myself: I've found the way to tone my Oriental VC is to increase the solution to 1:7 and leave it in for 8 minutes. That finally gives it the slight cooling, barely noticable purple, that I was hoping for. It seems like a strong solution, but that is what it required.
     
  13. Bruce Osgood

    Bruce Osgood Membership Council Council

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    If Permawash is anything like Hypo Clearing Agent, and I think it is, then you are working in opposite directions. HCA is used as a "Stop Bath" for KRST. You very well may be impeding the Si activity.