Multigrade Warmtone, old and new?

Discussion in 'Enlarging' started by j-fr, Jun 12, 2009.

  1. j-fr

    j-fr Member

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    I recently for the first time bought a box of the Multigrade Warmtone. I found it pleasing and bought another. But was very surprised to find that the paper in the next boxes was very different from the first. One was warmtone, the other was extreme warmtone.

    As far as I can see the two boxes have sligthly different labels and the very warm paper came from the older box But I don't remember reading anything on this rather dramatic change. Is my box of very warm Warmtone Multigrade a rare mistake or did Ilford some years ago introduce a new paper under the same name - and did they forget to tell us about it?

    j-fr

    www.j-fr.dk

    [​IMG]
     

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  2. thefizz

    thefizz Subscriber

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    I had the same experience with two boxes of paper in November 2008. It appears Ilford changed the surface from a creamy tone to a lesser creamy tone.
     
  3. dpurdy

    dpurdy Subscriber

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    That is definitely true. The older stuff was warmer based. Now Oriental has gone the other way making their paper much warmer.
     
  4. Tom Kershaw

    Tom Kershaw Subscriber

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    Is the newer warmtone paper on a white base?

    Tom,
     
  5. Andrew Moxom

    Andrew Moxom Member

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    Yes Tom, newer WT paper is on a white base now...
     
  6. Tom Kershaw

    Tom Kershaw Subscriber

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    Andrew,

    Have you compared it with Adox Premium Variotone?

    Tom.
     
  7. Chazzy

    Chazzy Member

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    Exactly what I wouldn't want in a warmtone paper. It's a pity, because from all reports the Multigrade Warmtone is excellent stuff.
     
  8. Andrew Moxom

    Andrew Moxom Member

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    Tom, I have not compared it to Variotone.... I have some variotone to try, but I do understand it has a white base aswell. My most used paper at this point is FOMA Variant 123. It's a velvet matt paper very similar to Agfa MCC118 but has a slight cream base. It is more neutral than the MG WT '131' eumlsion, but tones down nicely with sepia/selenium.
     
  9. dpurdy

    dpurdy Subscriber

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    It is very easy to turn the bright white paper into a warm creamy color. Just a quick bath in black tea will do it. The new formulation Oriental WT is interesting because though it has a much creamier warmer base on the emulsion side, it is just as bright white on the back paper side. The warmer creamier color must come from coloring the clay or something. PE suggested that.
    Dennis
     
  10. Tom Stanworth

    Tom Stanworth Member

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    I find the new WT the paper the old never was. Now you can print many more images on the somewhat more white new base and not have them leap out at you are jaundiced. I have been seriously impressed with the new stuff and to my eyes the paper appeared to have more surface sheen than when I last used it about five years ago.

    A GREAT move by Ilford IMO.
     
  11. bernt

    bernt Member

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    Which one of the labels is the old creamy one? J-fr, is it the upper or the lower one in your enclosed picture?
    Bernt
     
  12. j-fr

    j-fr Member

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    It is the lower one.

    j-fr

    www.j-fr.dk
     
  13. Mark Layne

    Mark Layne Member

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    I prefer dilute green tea personally. Very close to the original warm base
    Mark
     
  14. Richard Jepsen

    Richard Jepsen Member

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    If I understand this thread Ilford WT fiber recently changed paper tint to a white base vs the slight creme!! Thats great if true. The Oriental WT I took delivery on in 2007/mid 2008 had a white base. The new Oriental, made by Ilford, is way different. Yellow and slow. A white paper base increases print brilliance. Berrger WT, made by Ilford, also has a white base. With the old Oriental and now Berrger one can cool the image in selenium and achieve plummy shadows and oyster high tones.
     
  15. dpurdy

    dpurdy Subscriber

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    I believe the paper base change in Ilford was a few years ago, maybe 3 or 4 if my memory is right. But is it true that Oriental WT is now made by*Ilford?
     
  16. Richard Jepsen

    Richard Jepsen Member

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    I got a hint from a major retailer. Their excellent product reps know their products. They got blind sided by the Oriental WT emulsion change in 2008. I returned 8 packages for a more neutral paper. The older Oriental WT was an exceptable replacement for Forte Polywarmtone Plus. The new Oriental WT is very slow and very warm/yellow.
     
  17. Chazzy

    Chazzy Member

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    In that case, it might be just the thing I want.
     
  18. dpurdy

    dpurdy Subscriber

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    In 2008 when I tested them side by side I thought that they seemed like the same paper and they were both on a brighter white than I like. Now however recently Oriental has a new Warmer Formulation that is much warmer and is warmer than Ilford was 5 years ago. The new Oriental, which I think changed only a couple months ago, is half the speed of the previous Oriental WT.
     
  19. Bob F.

    Bob F. Member

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    A good way to warm up a white base colour is to sepia tone with a short diluted bleach stage - just enough bleaching to effect the highlights. Of course, that's brown rather than cream, but the effect can be useful if you want to knock the bright white off a little.
     
  20. LouisG

    LouisG Member

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    I have not used the new version of ILMGIVFB warmtone yet but suspect that it is about 1 stop slower than the old one. I recently updated the software on my Heiland splitgrade module. The upgrade includes new settings to accommodate changes in this paper. I did not realise how drastic the changes were until I made my first print on paper with the 'old' label. It seemed to require a very long exposure time, but went ahead and printed it anyway. The print was way too dark. Reducing exposure by 1 stop produced a reasonable print with nice contrast, but I have not had time to evaluate it fully. BTW all the MGIVWT paper in my possession still has the old label.

    I would be interested to hear whether others have had similar experiences.

    In my view the old version of this paper is brilliant, and sincerely hope this also applies to the new one.

    LG
     
  21. Gary Grenell

    Gary Grenell Member

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    I have recently compared the two (Adox Variotone and the new Ilford Warmtone). The paper base of the variotone is slightly creamier (warmer). This is precisely why in looking for a replacement for Agfa MCC classic I have opted to go with the NEW Ilford; it mimics the old Agfa. However, I see from the Adox website that freestyle may begin distributing the rereleased MCC (now made by Adox), this summer of 2009.
     
  22. SuzanneR

    SuzanneR Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Hmm... when I compared the Adox Variotone to Ilford warmtone, the paper base for the Adox was white, and the Ilford quite creamy. I wonder if I had an older box of Ilford? I'll have to check. I got very nice results with the Variotone, btw, in a warmtone developer with selenium. Just the right amount of brown in the dark tones.
     
  23. Richard Jepsen

    Richard Jepsen Member

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    I purchased and recently printed on the mentioned Ilford MGIV WT. I can't see a difference in Ilford WT paper tint from what I purchased 2 years ago. The new Bergger WT, coated in UK, does have a brighter, less creme, base tint as does Fotokemika Varycon KG. If you are looking for a very warm paper the new Oriental may fit the bill.