My epic battle with lith.. today's problem - streaks!

Discussion in 'Alternative Processes' started by f/stopblues, Aug 17, 2011.

  1. f/stopblues

    f/stopblues Member

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    I'm just checking in with my regularly scheduled lith issues :smile:

    I'm getting these lighter toned streaks running up the portrait orientation of my Foma 111 16x20 paper. I used this paper before in 11x14 without this happening, although at that time I was using LD-20 developer and now I have the Moersch stuff.

    I tried agitating the opposite direction of the streaks to no avail. My only suspicion is that they are some kind of mark showing up from when the paper was coated. I should mention that I've used this same package of paper for straight printing and there was no hint of streaks.

    So, any ideas? Chalk it up to bad paper and call it a day? Or is there a wildcard I may be overlooking?

    Technical details: Fomabrom 111, Moersch A+B 1+1+18 (yes, it's strong!)

    Version 1 at +3 stops:
    [​IMG]

    Version 2 at +2 1/2 stops:
    [​IMG]
     
  2. Grainy

    Grainy Member

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    Don't know what's causing it since I'm a newbie, but the streaks sure looks great on this picture. The only thing I can think of is, do you put it directly in the stop bath or do you hold it up to let the developer drain off first?
     
  3. Michael W

    Michael W Member

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    I've seen this on various papers in lith - Foma 123, Foma 112, Varycon, Slavich. Sometimes it happens, sometimes not. I suspect it is something to do with the paper coating, you would never see it in regular printing and it's not a coating defect.
     
  4. Travis Nunn

    Travis Nunn Member

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    to quote Tim Rudman ..."Lith has a way of showing up emulsion flaws that regular processing 'to completion' does not show."
     
  5. Mark Fisher

    Mark Fisher Subscriber

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    Looks like the paper to me. I've never had the problem with Foma, but I've seem much worse with Slavich. Freestyle has a liberal return policy if that is where you purchased it....or just use it for extra character!
     
  6. Katie

    Katie Subscriber

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    Never lithed, so I can't help. And although I have no idea what that first image is, I like the looks of it. :smile:
     
  7. Robk331

    Robk331 Member

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    You could try adding some restrainer to the developer, potassium bromide or sodium sulfite. Or dilute the developer.
     
  8. Jerevan

    Jerevan Subscriber

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    I've no idea, beyond what RobK says. I have never had (knock on wood) streaks like that, but I do use a higher dilution, 35-40 degress C temperature and hilarious amounts of agitation. Lith is like herding a bunch of cats sometimes, you get bitten and scratched and meowed at, but still they're so cute that you can't stop to give it another try. :D
     
  9. sarahfoto

    sarahfoto Member

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    I have had the same thing! Can't remember but think it was with the Slavich paper. I was too eager to bring them home from my darkroom and transported them still wet in a plastic bag on the bus for an hour and a half...
    Most of the Lith prints had the same kind of streaks that shows in yours and I ended up chucking them. I will not do that stupid mistake again!
     
  10. smieglitz

    smieglitz Subscriber

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    I'm not sure exactly what defect you are referring to in the images. Perhaps you could add an arrow pointing it out.

    In any event, I used to get irregular banding when I would develop lith film or anything needing extended development time in trays with troughs or ribs in the base. I switched to flat-bottomed Cesco trays and the problems went away.
     
  11. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    It's a paper coating issue. I've had it happen with Fotokemika Emaks, Fotokemika Varycon, Foma 132, and Kentmere Kentona.

    Lith has a tendency to reveal defects in the paper that simply doesn't show up with regular chemistry, for various reasons I am unfamiliar with. What's particularly difficult is that it isn't consistent from batch to batch, unless you use something like Ilford Warmtone, in which case it'll be consistently good without such artifacts.

    Good luck in sorting it out!


     
  12. tripgr

    tripgr Member

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    No lith with Ansco 130

    I am searching for the right magic combination of homebrew developer, paper, and process to lith. I have made some Ansco 130 and am getting excellent results for standard development accross a number of papers. Alas, I tried various tems, up to 33C and solutions, from 1:8 - 1:15'sh and nada - image comes up pretty fast (1-2 minutes) no infectious development and if I leave it longer I get chemical fogging . I burned through a pack of FOMABROM VARIANT IV 123 in the process. Anyone out there who used Ansco 130 to lith? What is your baseline dilution, and temperature?

    There are a lot of variables to control and I would welcome a baseline experience in Ansco 130 to anchor my further experimentation.
     
  13. Jerevan

    Jerevan Subscriber

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  14. WHof

    WHof Subscriber

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    I recently got 7 bad pieces of Fomatone 133 in a row - big white blotches in random places (in Moersch). When I complained to Freestyle this was their response: "This is a Lith thing. It would be interesting to see if it is also happening with standard B&W developer. Sometimes things happen in Lith that wouldn’t ordinarily be caught with standard developer as the manufacturers don’t make their papers with Lith in mind although they do work." Seems Freestyle doesn't really think Foma papers are or should be used in lith.
     
  15. Guillaume Zuili

    Guillaume Zuili Subscriber

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    Foma just changed the formulation of their papers (EU regulations), that's maybe why WHof.
     
  16. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Knowing the process cycle would help a bit!

    But, generally, coating defects appear perpendicular to the edge of the paper and not at an angle. Well, I take that back a bit. If the coating machine has a 45 degree turn around, then you can get defects at a 45 deg. angle as well. So, if they are manufacturing defects, I would guess right now that they arose later in the mfg. process. Maybe in cutting or packaging, IDK for sure, but this is my guess.

    I cannot see an easy way to get this from the process, but the process cycle would help indeed if it is a process problem.

    Oh, BTW, could you see this in the developer?

    PE
     
  17. tripgr

    tripgr Member

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    Thank you for the suggestion ... off to the lab to cook up some Dr. Jekyll No. 1... just waiting on some paper through the post.