My first time! (in 4x5)

Discussion in 'Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by Denis P., Sep 24, 2005.

  1. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

    Messages:
    466
    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Location:
    Croatia
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    ... and all I can say is ... WOW!!!

    I knew it would be different, but this is like... nothing I've seen or experienced before!

    I never did 4x5 format before - my biggest negs were 6x9 in my Speed Graphic 23 with a roll back, on medium format film.

    I got an old (but functional) Pacemaker Speed 4x5 a while ago, and finally caught some time to do a couple of test shots - mainly to try my hand in developing 4x5.
    Our own Paul Sorensen here on apug was a big help, by providing me with a nice JOBO 2523 tank (I already have an old JOBO CPE processor).
    I'm still waiting for my newly purchased JOBO 4x5 reel (it's been almost two months since I ordered it!)....
    Since I could not wait any more (understandably), and yesterday was a nice day after a week of rain, I loaded one of my old wooden Graphic double holders (an adventure unto itself :smile:) with Efke PL 100, and after some preparation (seemed hours!), I took my first two shots. There were zillion things that could go wrong, but it seems I was lucky :smile:

    The negs are drying as I write this....

    As for developing, after careful thought (and after discarding the idea of using some DIY tubes that I prepared), I decided to try a variant of "taco" development. Namely, the JOBO 2523 tank has "ridges" on its inner wall, and I found an old JOBO "formatholder" thingy (JOBO #4206) - supposedly for fastening test strips in their paper drums. I noticed I could use those little plastic tubes (spacers?) by clipping them to those inner ridges to keep the 2 negs fixed to the inner wall of the tank - i.e. to keep them from moving around. The only problem was whether those spacers would hold the negs from slipping inside, becoming loose, and scratching everything :sad:

    However, everything went well. I decided for a bit more diluted Rodinal (approx. 1+60, to make a total of about 350 ml of developer), and developing time of 10 minutes.
    When I opened the tank after the final wash - WOW - the negs were still fastened, not loose inside the tank, and when I carefully pulled the first one out - I almost fainted! There was an image there! :wink:

    The negs look OK - a bit on a thin side, perhaps, but they are aimed for scanning....
    We'll see tomorrow when they dry and after scanning.

    In short, a big THANK YOU goes to all Apugers, who continue to inspire and teach me.

    (Now, if only I could get my hands on some of those Jim Galli's lenses....) :wink:

    Just kidding - I have two brass oldies to try out before that :smile:

    Regards,

    Denis
     
  2. bobfowler

    bobfowler Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,439
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2003
    Location:
    New Jersey,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Welcome to the ranks of the large negative! Soon, your wallet and bank account will be just as empty as the rest of ours...

    hehehehe
     
  3. Dave Parker

    Dave Parker Inactive

    Messages:
    4,049
    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2004
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Bob,

    What Wallet?! since I started LF, I don't carry the extra weight! nothing to put in it

    Dave
     
  4. ouyang

    ouyang Member

    Messages:
    79
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Shooter:
    35mm
    how exciting!!!!

    I am waiting for my first shoot... It's probably gonna be next weekend!
    I was thinking of doing some kind of tray development as I don't have anything else yet....
    Post a scan, I'd love to see a first attempt!

    Cheers,

    Onno
     
  5. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    17,940
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Honolulu, Ha
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    It'll all be routine before you know it. Welcome to the club.
     
  6. Troy Ammons

    Troy Ammons Member

    Messages:
    174
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2005
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Welcome aboard.

    All I can say is wait until you shoot some E6 film. Its really nice, but whatever you do, dont ever shoot 8x10 E6. I made that mistake and now my 4x5 seems pale in comparison.
     
  7. Mongo

    Mongo Member

    Messages:
    960
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2004
    Location:
    Pittsburgh,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Congratulations Denis. I still remember the thrill of seeing my first 4x5 negatives, and some of that thrill still lives on every time I look at newly developed large format negative regardless of the size. There's a very special magic to a negative so large that you can examine the detail with your naked eye. And just wait until you see them on the light table with a loupe...
     
  8. John Kasaian

    John Kasaian Member

    Messages:
    1,030
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2002
    (Bongos, Maestro!) Congratulations! Doodeedoodee doodeedoodee---You have entered a space and time that defies logic and wealth. Its a place where the past, future and present not only meet, but sumo wrestle. A destination where pyro and amidol ebb and flow like the water in Giselle the Deardorff gal's bath tub and Ansel Adams tripod holes spew forth geysers of Ansco 130... SO sit back, load some more film holders and set that alarm clock for 5:00AM for whatever time zone you choose...as long as its in...THE TWILIGHT OF LF PHOTOGRAPHY ZONE! Doodeedoodee doodeedoodee ;-)
     
  9. raucousimages

    raucousimages Member

    Messages:
    825
    Joined:
    May 12, 2003
    Location:
    Salt Lake
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Welcome to the old school.
    Today I shot the fall color in northren Utah. 4 hours to shoot 8 chromes. That was 4 hours to realy study the hills. Great way to start a day. A camera phone just don't cut it.
     
  10. jimgalli

    jimgalli Subscriber

    Messages:
    3,571
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Tonopah Neva
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    I thought that was what the dog did that made the spots on the grass? Oh never mind. Congratulations Denis!! Welcome aboard. In fact I've been out loading about 50 sheets of 4X5 Efke 25 myself. Gotta watch that Efke film. Loading away and all of a sudden I notice the code's on the wrong side. Yipes! How many have I done wrong? Seems they switch every so often instead of the entire box being one directional.
     
  11. photomc

    photomc Member

    Messages:
    3,575
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2003
    Location:
    Texas
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Congrats Dennis....it is indeed great fun.
     
  12. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

    Messages:
    466
    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Location:
    Croatia
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks folks...

    The negs have dried, and I did the scannng this morning. Still fumbling with the scanner settings - I don't think I am managing to get the maximum from the negative being scanned.
    BTW, I don't have a 4x5 enlarger, so for the time being, it's scans only :sad:

    Still, the results are OK, being just simple tests (of exposure, camera handling, and most of all - development).

    What I find most rewarding is that my development system in the small JOBO tank on a JOBO rotary processor succeeded! I thought the negs (there were 2 inside) would slip and scratch during rotation...

    Attached are quick illustrations of the system I used - perhaps this info would be interesting to other beginners. It's just JOBO 2523 tank/drum, with 3 spacers attached to the inside ridges, keeping the 2 negs fastened.
    However, this allows you development of 2 sheets max. When I get the proper JOBO 4x5 reel, it will take 6 sheets max, AFAIK.

    Denis
     

    Attached Files:

  13. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

    Messages:
    466
    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Location:
    Croatia
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    And here's the scanned result.
    The negs are perhaps a bit too thin, even for scanning, and seem to lack contrast. Next time I'll do the usual 1+50 dilution, instead of 1+60 which I used here.
    Forgive the absolutely banal shot, but it's the first stationary object I could find :smile:

    The technicalities could be better, from development to scanning - but I was satisfied to see that there are no scratches, and no dust to speak of (which was a major concern, given the messy darkroom, and the fact that this was the first time I loaded a 4x5 film holder :smile:)

    BTW, if you take a better look, you can see the holder identification number in lower right corner - see my post a few days ago, about identifying film holders ("notching film holders" thread) :smile:

    Denis
     

    Attached Files:

  14. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    17,940
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Honolulu, Ha
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    You're off to a fine start.
     
  15. luvmydogs

    luvmydogs Member

    Messages:
    249
    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2004
    Location:
    Toronto, Can
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Denis, congratulations!! That photo is not bad at all for your first try! I hope I'll be as fortunate! I am still waiting for my first LF camera to get here. I'm very nervous, but your post has been an inspiration.
     
  16. Patrick M

    Patrick M Member

    Messages:
    6
    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2005
    Location:
    Leichlingen
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I absolutely agree with Macy.
    I'm also looking forward to try LF within the next months and after reading your thread I can hardly await (I'm not sure if this phrase really exists in english ... I just hope it does) it.
     
  17. photomc

    photomc Member

    Messages:
    3,575
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2003
    Location:
    Texas
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Dennis, now that you have the negatives...you don't have to scan or even enlarge. You might try just doing some contact prints. Would be surprised how many actually prefer a nice small contact print. Member Jeremy Moore, does some very nice 3.25x4.25 contacts (plt/pld) that are really wonderfull. You could also do the same thing with AZO or silver paper.

    Enjoy, but be ware....my sig line is not just a cute little saying...this time last year I was shooting 4x5 (still do), but now have added 5x7 and 8x10 because the 4x5 negs got to looking small to me. :smile:
     
  18. ouyang

    ouyang Member

    Messages:
    79
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Yeah, what about AZO paper. I read about it and must say it sounds really good. Who uses it here. I would like to do contacts with 4x5 and Azo sounds really nice.. What are the pro's and cons?

    grt. Onno
     
  19. Bobman

    Bobman Member

    Messages:
    22
    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2003
    Location:
    Singapore
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    This is EVIL and ADDICTIVE! But this is True. :smile:
     
  20. Paul Sorensen

    Paul Sorensen Member

    Messages:
    1,897
    Joined:
    Nov 15, 2004
    Location:
    Saint Paul, MN
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    No fair! I sell you my little Jobo tank and I am still not able to get good negs with the big tank and two of the reels. :sad:

    I am thinking that it is due to improper agitation, so I am starting to work on that.

    I am glad to see that you are getting such nice negs from your setup. Where does one get those little spacer thingies? I might even try them next.

    Paul.
     
  21. BradS

    BradS Subscriber

    Messages:
    4,219
    Joined:
    Sep 28, 2004
    Location:
    S.F. Bay Area
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    Congrats Denis. It is a slippery slope you're on....watch your step.
     
  22. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

    Messages:
    466
    Joined:
    May 20, 2004
    Location:
    Croatia
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Paul, if you take a closer look at the first digi shot of the setup I posted above, you'll see three plastic "tubes" - that's what I used. Those are part of JOBO "Formatholder" (JOBO part. # 4206) that was used for their paper drums, for developing of test strips and negatives. It also has a clear flexible plastic "wrapping", which I did not use. The three digi shots show clearly how it's done.


    I'm not sure you can easily get that JOBO part any more. However, it should not be difficult to make the needed "spacers" yourself. Just get some rigid plastic tube, diameter of about 8-10mm (or anything you can lay your hands on of similar dimensions, even a plastic casing of a ball-point pen), cut into pieces of about 4 cm long, and cut these short tubes lengthwise. Then try attaching them to the inside ridges of the drum. It may take a few tries to find the right material, but it shouldn't be too complicated.
    I'm attaching photos of the spacers I used and the original JOBO "formatholder".
    NB: the ruler is in cm (centimeters).

    As for agitation, I used the JOBO processor (older CPE with lift), starting with about 15 seconds on the faster speed (#2), and the rest was all done on SLOWER speed (marked with #1). I don't know if that makes any difference....

    HTH,

    Denis
     

    Attached Files: