My Jobo's are on their last legs

Discussion in 'Product Availability' started by Bob Carnie, Dec 11, 2009.

  1. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    A sad day indeed, I will need to put to rest my Jobo's for good in the coming year. Parts are becoming impossible to get , service is non existant.
    My Alt 2300's have given me years of fantastic use and they owe me nothing.

    I want to continue with film processing and I still want to use all my Jobo drums , reels that I have thousands of dollars invested in.

    I am looking for a geek/master tech head , here on APUG that I can commission to build me a rotary platform that can hook up to all my drums, It must mimic the agitation that an Alt2300 does at two different speeds.
    We will hand fill and drain rather than the auto feature of the 2300 design so I am really looking for a base, programable timer and a connection that will hold the various tanks up to expert drums.
    In fact I will need up to 4 bases if the budget permits. Right now one working model will do.
    Parts must be North American, local to Toronto preferrably, I do not want to be looking for exotic plastic devices.

    I have 5 thumbs on each hand and though I know what I want , I cannot make this device if my life depended upon it.

    If this is a project someone here is interested in persuing please email me at bob@elevatordigital.ca.
    I do know about Joboman, I do know about Omega Sattar, I am not trying to fix the 2300 anymore , I want to replace the base and work a bit more manually.
     
  2. dwdmguy

    dwdmguy Member

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    Hi Bob.
    I'm sure we've talked before. I have the ALT2300 and I'm very technical. (Engineer)
    Would you like to chat off line and figure out what's wrong and see if we can fix her?

    I know it's much much too expensive to ship for repair but we may be able to talk about it (email etc) and figure it out.

    Now, if you firm on putting it to rest, please consider giving it to one of us for parts so we can live on.
    Best,
    Tom
     
  3. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Bob;

    I'm so sorry to hear this happen. I have 2 Jobos that have been unused since I started the emulsion work, but I too am concerned about longevity. I cannot help you, but I do believe that there will come a point when all of the parts are used up in exchanges. They wear and are one of a kind designed just for the Jobo. Heating elements and gears are big problems. Motors are special order items as well, I understand. And, they tend to burn out due to strain imposed by heavy loads in the drums.

    Is this the fate of all automated analog cameras as well? It seems to me, we will see an epidemic of this across the board as the equipment becomes older and older.

    Best wishes to you all for some sort of solution to the problem.

    PE
     
  4. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Tom
    I have the alt 2300 the alt 3 plus two or three heads for the alt3 and I am not interested in fixing them as it is a constant threat and PIA to tell my customers to wait for repairs or parts.
    When I find a solution I will donate all the gear I do not want to those of you wanting the parts.

    regards
    Bob
     
  5. dwdmguy

    dwdmguy Member

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    Well, ok Bob. Then please keep me in mind.....
    Bob States "Is this the fate of all automated analog cameras as well?"

    No, it will be the newer digi's that go WAY before the analog bodies.
     
  6. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Bob;

    For film, have you considered going back to deep tank processing with Nitrogen burst agitation? Non-tech but reliable.

    This uses a replenished process.

    Larger Saran screen baskets will do RA processing at room temp.

    This long term lab workflow goal may solve all current problems as automated equipment dies.

    PE
     
  7. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    True enough, but there may be repair parts for the digistuff. (unfortunately)

    PE
     
  8. Denis P.

    Denis P. Member

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  9. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    PE
    I have and it may be a solution but I have been spoiled over the years with my Jobo's , not to mention the thousands of dollars in accessories.
    I only use Jobo for film.
    It is easy for me to say , but making a dedicated roller base that couples with my tanks should not be such a hard project. I just am usless at fixing things.. I am the idea guy rather than the one who actually can work with tools.

    Bo

    Bob
     
  10. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Now thats what I am talking about.. thanks for the link, maybe some gearheads near me want to work with me with specific needs I have.


     
  11. Kimberly Anderson

    Kimberly Anderson Member

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    If you decide to part out your ATL-3, please let me know. I'm just getting mine running and am already nervous about spare parts.
     
  12. Mahler_one

    Mahler_one Member

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    As PE noted, for those who use the Jobos, failure of the units is an issue that is the back of our collective minds. One alternative for roll film could well be the Heiland TAS processor available from Dr. Ross at RH Designs. One might be able to merge the TAS with the Processor Two automatic temperature compensating timer and do almost as well as the Jobo. Of course, the ATL is completely automated whereas with other units one has to empty and fill the tanks. Another possibility ( sheet film ) is obviously to return to tray processing which, all things considered, is really not that difficult. Once again, to make things easier ( if you don't feel comfortable juggling film by hand ) is to purchase one of the "slosher" units from PF. Simply put the sheets into the compartments of the slosher which is in the appropriate tray, add the temperature probe from the RHDesign compensating timer to the developing tray, and away you go by simply moving the slosher from one tray to another. Once again, manual in the dark....but then again, you will be able to develop all of your images. Finally, and I realize that many will not feel comfortable doing so, learn to develop by inspection. A number of individuals on APUG have learned to DBI ( sheet film only of course ), and I am also learning to do so. Some seem to get the "hang of it quickly", others struggle. However, in most cases, with practice comes mastery...and one is liberated forever from time and temperature constraints, as well as the Jobo. Just a few suggestions that you probably already know about. Obviously, there are other alternatives including tanks, nitrogen burst, etc., etc. I really hope that you can find a way to fix your Jobo automatic processor.

    Ed
     
  13. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Folks
    I have to ask to remember when posting that I have a commercial business where we run large quantities of film.
    The last batch of film processing was over 150 runs of film, black and white and colour, 35mm to 8x10*fifty runs of 8x10*

    I am looking for suggestions to use my existing tanks and workflow. I am really looking for a gearhead geek to make an alternative to the base of my Alt 3 and Alt2300.

    going a bit manual by pouring in and draining is no problem for my Technicians.
     
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  15. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Michael

    I will post when I have solve this issue for my lab and its yours or whoever picks up first. I need to solve this quickly as I am expecting a very large batch of film from Shanghai in Feb.


    Bob

     
  16. Kimberly Anderson

    Kimberly Anderson Member

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    When you say 'base' for the ATL-3, are you talking about the lower tank holding area or are you talking about the stand with the chemical recovery tanks...or are you talking about something else?
     
  17. Mahler_one

    Mahler_one Member

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    Sorry Bob...I didn't realize.

    Ed
     
  18. Photo Engineer

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    Bob;

    The basket or sink line processes were designed for commercial production. I have run 8x10 tanks in a sink line process that did 4 4x5 sheets of film per hanger and each 8x10 tank could hold about 10 hangers so that is 40 sheets per run. It can outdo a single or even several Jobos.

    Much of the early stuff was done that way, and the quality was excellent once you had your work flow down. That took about 2 runs to get the agitation and hanger movement done. That you can do in the light.

    It is essentially how I learned!

    PE
     
  19. df cardwell

    df cardwell Subscriber

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    basket or sink line process

    I think Bob served his time with sink lines,
    but they are set up to do what they are doing,
    and it is better to substitute the thing that turns the Jobo tanks than to re-jigger the whole process

    Great lab, by the way. Except for Bob's tailor.
     
  20. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    He is the same person that outfits Dinesh.

    I have spent a lot of time with sink lines and to go back to calumet basket with nitrogean burst is not an option that I want to consider. I would like to solve my situation with the tanks and reels I have
    As pointed out I need to use Rotary Process as I cannot mess around with clients film who have had 15 years of Jobo process and it really is complicated for me to go back to sink. I do agree PE that one can do more film with a sink line but for reasons not obvious, a rotary process is more consistant with different operators using the machine than some of the dip and dunk systems I have used in the past. As well I would need to build a new room to house all of this
    I have $$$$$ invested in reels and tanks not easily replaced .
    I really am looking for a base system that is programable that can accept my tanks, I have over 30 of these suckers in various sizes and they are IMO irreplacable and I curse Jobo, curse them I say.



     
  21. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    No problem , I appreciate all the posts

     
  22. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    Bob:

    Do I assume correctly that your conversations with Phototherm didn't result in a workable solution?

    Matt
     
  23. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Michael

    I am talking about replacing the whole unit and just keeping the tanks and reels.
    I am looking to have the rotary base made by hopefully a geek/gearhead on APUG. In fact if one is built and has all local parts then I will order three more.
    Don't ask me why because it has a digital output application that is then in turn applied to a totally wet analogue process but I can't say because the analogue police will shut me down on this thread, so its a secret.

    Bob
     
  24. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Matt
    they did and if this base idea cannot work then I will go to phototherm..
    The accessories that I have will push the cost of adapting the Sidekick to my needs is really $$$painful$$$

    After thinking about this for over a year and a half I have came to the conclusion that somewhere, somehow ,someone will stand up and say *** I can do it***
    my problem is that I am useless at mechanics , but a brilliant idea man and printer so I should just come up with ideas and print.

    Bob
     
  25. Photo Engineer

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    Bob;

    I know you have now. Many younger people have not. But, if Jobo has left the market and there is no replacement, we must cope. Of course, we also have to rely on color film being around in the first place.

    So, we do what we must to stay in business, right?

    If there is no replacement or substitute, then we must improvise something.

    Sorry I cannot help any further.

    PE
     
  26. paul ewins

    paul ewins Member

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    Bob,
    the only real difficulty in replacing the ATL series is the automation, which you have said you are happy to live without. Broken down into it's component parts a CPP (which is what any ATL without automation effectively is) consists of:
    1. a pump to circulate the water
    2. a heater coil and thermostat circuit to control the temperature.
    3. a motor to turn the drum with a speed control
    4. the gearing from the motor to the drum and the reversing control.
    5. the lift

    1. should be an off the shelf part
    2. should also be an off the shelf solution
    3. is allegedly a wiper motor from a BMW. The speed control should be dead simple since the only thing that matters is the output RPM of the motor. Simply calculate the RPM at each of the speeds and then all the replacement has to do is replicate the speeds, not replicate how Jobo does it.
    4. should be able to be reused
    5. should be able to be reused, or reengineered in metal for more strength.

    Broken down into those components you should be able to find a light engineering works that could replicate it relatively easily.

    Going further than that involves being able to deliver a precise amount of chemicals from the tanks to the drums so that you can use bulk chemicals rather than measuring them out for each run. There are various solutions to that, but it would be to simpler to avoid altogether and use the CPP/CPA style square bottles (Ilford bottles are the same size) and have enough of them that you can set up three or four runs in advance.