Mystery 70mm film from NASA - help

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by StoneNYC, Aug 15, 2012.

  1. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    So I bought a 70mm back for my Mamiya off of eBay, when I got it there were two spools inside and the takeup spool still contained film. Now they reels could have been switched, but I contacted the seller who informed me it was from NASA as they were selling off old equipment.

    I have NO idea what kind of film it is except that it's non-perforated even though the back is SUPPOSED to take perforated 70mm it's not really necessary as long as you can count since the frame counter relies on the perforations.

    Anyway I've taken some snippets, developed one in B&W film and it came out spotty which made it look like it had dirt all over it, and then just did one in E-6 which produced what appears to be a correct (but blank) exposed film piece, basically clear pale pinkish-orange color.

    My question is, if this fillm were say a C-41 film would it still come out looking like it had been processed correctly? Since the snippets I took were from the exposed film sticking out of the spool, I know it's already fully exposed, but I don't want to waste a good frame till I know for sure which process to use.

    Any additional advice would be appreciated. Heck maybe I can find out that the moon landing was faked! :smile:

    The pre processed film has a dark back with a grey-khaki colored emulsion side could almost be described as green military khaki color (like the tan-lighter green part of camouflage patterns).

    After the first developer the film is completely dark grey.

    After the color developer the film is the same color, dark grey.

    After the Blix the film is translucent light orange-pink.

    So is this indeed color reversal film? Or could it be other films?

    The back is from the 80's so the film could be too. The only other 70mm film I've processed so far (all B&W types) have not had any markings to indicate the film type at all. So the film may not have markings even when properly processed...

    I've tried to be as thorough as possible.

    Help!

    Thanks! ~Stone
     
  2. Mike Wilde

    Mike Wilde Member

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    My guess is that it is a transparency film. The FD and CD results to me indicate it is likely heavily heat (or maybe even radiation) fogged.

    I also think that somehow the fogged film after reversal gives some dye couplers from the CD action to form the final colour cast.

    C-41 I have never seen without the strong orange base mask. C-22 had an even stronger tinted mask, in my opinion.
     
  3. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    Moon landing recorded on Ektachrome 64. There is a database about all missions and selection from the shots at NASA.
    If I am not wrong 70 mm film was AS14. Someone opened a similar thread and I found 70mm AS14 Film at database at nasa.gov. I made a idea , AS was apollo space mission but Its only a idea. Photo Engineer worked at NASA and Kodak from early 60s and he has the answer . PM him.
     
  4. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    Mustafa,

    Do you know the username of this NASA engineer to PM him? Thanks!
     
  5. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    Mike,

    After further comparison With the only color film I have available that is processed (Kodak Ektar) the mystery film was much more peach in color than the Ektar which was more orange, also the mystery film seeme clouded/milky (only slightly) compared to the Ektar, might just be age but also could be an effect of the wrong process, just more info, I've never seen c-22.

    I've been shooting for over 15 years bud always had my film pro-processed so I'm a but new to this game with lack of info.

    Thanks so much!

     
  6. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    Thanks Mustafa!

    Do you happen to have a website link to the NASA database?

    And as I asked before do you have the username of the NASA engineer I can contact/PM?

    Thanks!

     
  7. Mustafa Umut Sarac

    Mustafa Umut Sarac Member

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    I am sorry for late reply , He is called Photo Engineer and you can send a pm with writing only these words to the adress at private message.

    Click on notifications at top right side of the pages and you would see at left New Message button. When filling the adress , robot would help you to find the correct address. You will see.

    May be I am wrong but his name is Ron Mowrey and he published a book and dvd on emulsion making. He is coauthor of Kodachrome patent.

    NASA site - pictures- is not responding , search at mission pictures as14 nasa at google.

    Have fun ,

    Umut
     
  8. nworth

    nworth Subscriber

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    If it came from NASA, it most likely is either Kodak or Agfa film. Let's assume Kodak. It could be either aerial film (very likely for 70mm) or cine film or ordinary still film. Since it came with that back and is unperforated, it is unlikely to be cine film. It could be either negative or positive. Many Kodak negative aerial films did not have an integral orange mask, but they were compatible with C-41 processing. My guess is that it is aerial film.
     
  9. j-dogg

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    Sounds like aerial film to me.
     
  10. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    all of the cross processing I've done with C-41 films that were processed in E-6 chemistry came out green with no hint of orange/peach at all... So is it possible this is slide film? Or does arographic film behave differently?
     
  11. Andre Noble

    Andre Noble Subscriber

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    Oh no, you likely just ruined what is likely the Lost Apollo 11 Moon Landing footage.
     
  12. jm94

    jm94 Member

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    Do post any good results you get with this film if any, And that footage was filmed on SSTV tapes that was taped over with the next days tv programmes! So all they had was the optical recordings of the screen at mission control!

    I don't believe all that they say about the moon landings, why did they not keep the only high quality footage they had?
     
  13. StoneNYC

    StoneNYC Subscriber

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    Ok everyone! So needless to say the film was blank, I think it was at some point fully exposed, the film was dark all the way through and had sort of splotchy what I would call oil marks (like if you poured oil onto a wall then it dripped down unevenly) very strange. Oh well, it was a fun experiment an thanks for all the tips.

    Sorry also for still being a blank face.

    Soon I'll have a full profile AND an updated website which I'll boast humbly about :wink:

    Thanks again everyone!
     
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  15. okto

    okto Member

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    Because magnetic tape was fantastically expensive in the 1960s. Tons of old TV shows are lost or missing seasons (Doctor Who comes to mind) because the networks couldn't afford not to re-use their tapes.
     
  16. Diapositivo

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    Actually NASA said that the overwriting of the asserted lunar landing happened by mistake. For years they claimed they had "lost" the tape. Only recently they said they have conclusive evidence that they overwrote it by mistake.

    Besides, they would be total idiots to spend untold billions of taxpayer money to (supposedly) go to the moon and then save on the cost of the magnetic tape on the only real proof they have. That amounts to climbing the Everest and then not taking pictures because film is expensive. The proportion of the film cost to the cost of climbing the Everest is probably bigger than the tape cost to the cost of the Apollo project.

    It should also be noted, as a mere fact, that by some other "mistakes" NASA lost the telemetry data of all missions and the blueprints of the lunar vehicles.

    That wouldn't be a big problem, they had some lunar vehicles identical to those that they say went on the moon but, guess what, they destroyed them, I don't know if "by mistake" or "to recover the metal", metal is, as everybody knows, expensive. The lunar vehicle (I don't remember its name) which is in the Alabama museum (or wherever) is a different prototype and is not like those who they say went on the moon.

    And before you run to conclusions :wink: yes I am one of those who greatly, greatly doubt about the truth of what the NASA say about man on the moon.

    If you want to exercise your ability to doubt just search the internet and you'll find plenty of information that might shake your received beliefs. :devil:

    Fabrizio

    PS I don't intend wasting my time debating the thing here in detail. Internet is FULL of information for those who have eyes to see. Those who just need to believe that Man went on the moon can also be content with the explanation that magnetic tape was recycled to save on its cost :wink:. Anything can be told to a true believer and he will buy it.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 20, 2012
  17. snaggs

    snaggs Member

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    The Chinese or Russians or many others have satelites that can image the moons surface. Im sure if they could proove the landing site was empty they would be only to happy to expose the fraud. It would be nice if theyd point hubble at the site and take a photo of the flag and abandoned hasselblads :smile:

    What about the ISS, do you believe in that?

     
  18. Diapositivo

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    It's entirely a myth that the Soviets did not prove the Moon mission is a lie. They said it since day one. You probably read the Pravda but don't understand it much :wink:

    During the entire "space race" the URSS had been, as you know, quite in advance in respect to the US as far as any "milestone" was concerned. Something like 18 - 24 months in advance. They had a "man on Moon" project, too. When they measured the amount of radiation in the Van Allen Belt(s) they found out that in order to protect the astronauts (or the cosmonauts as the USSR called them) a huge amount of shielding was needed, something like 1 metre thickness of lead. That made the goal impossible to be attained. So the USSR scrapped the project entirely as infeasible.

    Either the Van Allen belt makes some favouritism, or the Apollo missions never brought any man on the moon (as they came back).

    USSR propaganda always said it was all a big lie. Still nowadays in the former USSR states the majority of people do not believe that the US sent men to the moon. Americans believe it because US propaganda says it. US propaganda also says that the USSR "would be only happy to expose the fraud". The USSR exposed the fraud but you weren't listening :wink:

    After scrapping their moon project the USSR begun working on something that could be done, the space station Mir (Peace) which lasted in the space for a very long time before being replaced by the ISS which is, in fact, heavily based on the Mir project.

    The ISS, like all manned Space Shuttle missions, remains "near" the Earth, the Van Allen belts are further between earth and moon. The only manned space missions which supposedly have passed through the van Allen belt are the Apollo missions. Recently the NASA scrapped projects for a second series of manned missions to the moon citing "higher than expected radiations" in the Van Allen belts. The stuff is there since billions years. Go figure.

    Besides, there are plenty of proofs about existence and working conditions of the ISS. The space agencies involved did not systematically destroy everything that could be claimed as proof, and could be exposed as a fabricated fake. This cannot be said for the Apollo missions.

    Dig the internet and you'll discover plenty interesting stuff...

    As a further point of reflection I would ask you why do you think that the USSR wouldn't have sent men to the moon. Even if the US had passed the USSR during the race, wouldn't have been rational for the USSR to continue racing and arrive not distant second? The US had arrived distant second at ALL the previous milestones. The USSR would have suffered little loss of pride by sending their mission to the moon maybe some months after the US. So why do you think they did not do it? Why did they just "give up" entirely the race with the US? Isn't that strange?

    Consider that the Soviets arrived first to the moon with an un-manned mission, were the first to bring back to Earth some moon stones, and were generally "well positioned" so to speak :wink:
     
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  19. ambaker

    ambaker Subscriber

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    Not to belabor the point. But while you are Googling your evidence of Moon fraud, evidently the rest of the world did not read Pravda either, you might want to Google for pictures from the Japanese lunar orbiter that does show the US landing sites, the rover, and the tracks they made on the moon. No pictures of the Blads, though.

    Unless, of course, Japan has joined literally the rest of the world in the cover-up.

    http://www.squidoo.com/apollo-moon-landing-photos-from-space


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  20. Prof_Pixel

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    LOL.... and I always thought it was because the Russian N-1 moon rockets kept exploding. http://www.starbase1.co.uk/n1/n1-history.html
     
  21. Diapositivo

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    That certainly does not solve my doubts. I see an image with an arrow saying "flag" but I see no flag, you see.

    Many unmanned missions went to the moon, both US missions and USSR missions, to collect data, stones etc. All those missions left many traces of landing, crawling and possibly some objects. If you dig the moon to collect some carrots of lunar soil I suppose you leave something on the ground. Did not see any footpath either in the pictures you link. You have to believe the captions rather than your eyes.

    If you are so interested in seeing photographs of the moon, then, again, search the internet to find the very curious photographs that the astronauts brought back from the moon, some of them clearly and demonstrably fake (as underlined by a Danish photography magazine at that time, and as re-published by Italian photography magazine Fotografare more recently). As a photographer you should build some doubts.

    One might always think that they actually went to the moon, but got no decent pictures, and needed some good pictures for propaganda purposes, who knows? But the thought spontaneously comes to mind that if the pictures are fake, then it's much more likely it's all a fake.

    PS It's not an easy life for a film on the moon, with temperature excursions of some 100 °C or more within a few metres (sun, shade) extreme cold and extreme high temperature. The Apollo mission appears to have managed not only to take pictures with their modified Hasselblad, but also to have set an intragalactic Live TV transmission which is no less surprising than the moon landing itself. Pity they lost the tape!

    I'm not sure they did NOT go. I'm just sure I'm not convinced AT ALL by the too many evidences pointing toward the scam and the great, great stink.
     
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  22. StoneNYC

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    Well those pictures aren't great but pretty good, and my film didn't produce anything lol!

    I think I'll wait till I can take a flight on a Virgin Galactic flight (yes this is a real thing).

    I'll be sure to being my Mamiya (hassleblad's are too expensive and basically have the same quality glass as the RZ67's).


    ~Stone

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  23. snaggs

    snaggs Member

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    Really, Im afraid your clutching at straws. Australia had one of the dishes that tracked the Apollo missions. Some of the lost tapes were also recovered here. Ive been to the company that did the work, theyre a small privately owned company that processes GIS and mining data so has lots of old machines and geeks who know how to use them. Not baby boombers either.

    http://www.cosmosmagazine.com/news/3827/lost-apollo-tapes-restored-and-broadcast

    If you know anything about Australia, is that people can be a bit blunt and irreverant. Theres no way these old academics would cover up a scam like that. Theres no Ivy league here boys club here, no reason for them to continue the perpetuation of a lie.
     
  24. Diapositivo

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    That is not inconsistent with what I have read, regarding the fact that the Soviet abandoned manned missions to the moon. You can want to lift some large weight to the space for different purposes than a manned mission.

    On the very same day that the US reportedly went to the moon the USSR was conducting an unmanned mission on the moon as well. Getting to the moon by 1969 was "easy". Getting men to the moon was the problem. The vector which had problems that you mention had the purpose of lifting a larger weight than what was already possible, with the goal of even sending probes (obviously) to Mars.

    LATER EDIT: For those with a mind open to doubt, I suggest beginning from this site:

    http://www.ufos-aliens.co.uk/cosmicapollo.html
     
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  25. Diapositivo

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    The link you quote confirms what is well known. The original TV tape was lost. What is "restored" is some second-generation copy.

    <<
    Resigned to the fact that the original SSTV tapes were lost forever, the restoration team set about tracking down the highest quality footage among the converted recordings of the first broadcast.

    Another painstaking search followed, but within several years an astonishing number of long-forgotten tapes had been amassed from various archives. While the more badly degraded tapes would require extensive restoration work - including the only video from Honeysuckle Creek of Armstrong descending the ladder - the team had cause to celebrate.

    >>

    The original tape is the only one which can be examined to show signs of tampering, or lack thereof. You cannot detect tampering from a copy. All other copies are taken from some copies of the second-generation copy the NASA has.

    It's a bit as if you had a print with a strange object. You lost the original negative. You find a second-generation negative but in no way the second-generation negative can dispel doubts that it was obtained with a sandwich. You need the original negative. Restoration of a copy is no useful. Restoration of a copy which will have "higher quality than the original", as the article says, tells you a lot about the general mindset.
     
  26. StoneNYC

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    The fact that you just quoted from a UFO conspiracy page completely ruined any legitimacy you did have haha.

    Anyway, we are a bit off topic here, I can however send you my NASA film and maybe you can re-bleach it and discover the truth... :wink:

    Be light about life guys, lets just enjoy the big picture :smile:


    ~Stone

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