n00b question about 120 roll film...

Discussion in 'Medium Format Cameras and Accessories' started by cepwin, Nov 10, 2012.

  1. cepwin

    cepwin Member

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    So for fun I got a "debonair" from the Film Photography Project (FPP) which uses 120 roll film. Now with the 35mm cartridges I can finish a roll and it's rolled back into the light-tight cartridge until I'm ready to process. What about roll film. What do I do with it between finishing the roll and processing it (or sending it out as I'll probably do with the E100g expired film they included which I don't have the chemistry to process.) Also I assume when I go to put it on the roll to develop the paper back is peeled off? (I have two rolls of B/W which I intend to process myself after I expose them)
    !
    Thanks!
     
  2. one90guy

    one90guy Member

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    After frame 12 I roll all film on takeup reel, remove and use the tape on end if it has one or I do carry rubber bands in my bag. Others may have another method, but I have never had a problem. Have fun.
     
  3. markbarendt

    markbarendt Subscriber

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    120 Rolls have a paper backing that continues past the end of the film and wraps around the shot film as you roll it onto the other spool. There's a paper tape attached that will let you keep it in place.
     
  4. flatulent1

    flatulent1 Subscriber

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    When the roll of 120/220 is completely shot and wound on, there is an adhesive end for you to stick down. one90guy adds rubber bands, I have some plastic 120 film cans (purchased from Freestyle), others use M&M Mini containers or somesuch. If I'm not doing the processing myself I take the film cans with me when I leave the film at the lab.
     
  5. PentaxBronica

    PentaxBronica Member

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    The Ilford 120 film has a gummed paper strip attached to the end. After the final frame you just keep winding until you hear it unhook from the first spool and then the "tick-tick-tick" of the end of the backing paper rotating in the takeup spool area (most 120 cameras have a tongue which keeps the film tightly wound). Open the back, carefully remove the film, lick the end of the paper strip and wrap it tightly around the film to hold it. Be very careful not to drop it before you get to that stage as if the film unrolls itself you'll expose the lot.

    Try to only lick a small area of the strip - if you can leave the very end loose then it will be easier to rip it off again in the darkroom when you come to process the film, otherwise it's like trying to find the end of the roll of tape in the dark!
     
  6. adelorenzo

    adelorenzo Subscriber

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    Don't forget to fold the end of the paper under before you tape it.
     
  7. mopar_guy

    mopar_guy Subscriber

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    The roll of 120 comes on it's own spool including a backing paper. In order to load the camera or film back, you need to have a second spool which serves to receive the film from the "new" roll of 120. When the roll of film is finished, you continue to wind the film onto the second spool until the end of the backing paper is wound off of the original spool. Use the adhesive tape to seal the end of the backing paper so that it won't unwind and expose the film to light. Finally, move the empty spool to the "take-up" side of the camera or back and you are ready to load another film.
     
  8. Alex Muir

    Alex Muir Member

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    Hi. You do remove the backing paper before loading into a processing reel. The end of film you reach first is not attached to the paper, but the other end is. There is a piece of adhesive tape there holding the film to the paper. When I reach that part, I gently peel them apart and fold the tape over so that it sticks to the end of the film. I do this to avoid it sticking to something important! I then cut a thin strip of film away so that the tape doesn't end up in the chemicals. The length of film can then be loaded onto the spiral. I tend to pre-soak 120 films in the tank for about a minute to remove the anti-halation dye before adding developer. You get great negatives from 120 size film. It's worth the effort. Alex
     
  9. Alex Muir

    Alex Muir Member

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    Hi. Remove paper before loading reel. Watch out for strip of tape that holds them together. Gently pull apart, fold over and cut off before loading. A plain water pre-soak removes dye before developing. One minute is usually enough at developer temp. Alex
     
  10. Alex Muir

    Alex Muir Member

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    Sorry about double post!
     
  11. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Welcome to APUG!
    Roll the film up on the take up reel. Use the tape at the end of the roll to keep the film rolled up. Use Scotch tape or equivalent if necessary. Do not use a rubber band, because if the rubber band is a little too tight, it will leave marks on the film.
     
  12. cepwin

    cepwin Member

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    Thank you for all the responses! I look forward to seeing what I can pull out of this little camera. One reason I wanted to try 120 film is to see the difference. between it and 35mm. Thanks again!
     
  13. PentaxBronica

    PentaxBronica Member

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    What you can get from 120 film really depends on the camera.

    I can get very decent negatives with my 6x4.5 Bronica ETR system, however those cameras make it very simple as you just use a handheld meter, transfer the settings, compose, focus and shoot. As it's an SLR what you see is what you get, so you know it's in focus and the composition is exactly what you want.

    I also own a 1930s Zeiss Ikon folding camera which shoots 6x9 on the same 120 film, that thing is very difficult to handle as you have to guess the focus and you're stuck with either a tiny and a bit rough "brilliant finder" (a mirror and a couple of lenses, you look into the top) or a crude pop-up frame finder. The lens is first rate but it's difficult to be sure of focus and framing. While it was obviously intended to be cradled against the user's chest in portrait orientation I will be using a tripod next time, and carrying a 35mm camera to use as a rangefinder.
     
  14. cepwin

    cepwin Member

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    Interesting. I'm going to have to see. I've seen some sample images and they look decent but I'll see when I get the E100g film developed. (They included E100g film as a bonus.) The other two rolls are B/W which I'll develop and scan (and hopefully print...if I get something I like) myself. I have a 35mm yashica rangefinder which I really like but I'd love to get a TLR (I've been sort-of watching them on ebay for some time)
     
  15. PentaxBronica

    PentaxBronica Member

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    It really depends on what you want it for. My view of TLRs would be that they can be superb cameras, fun to use and capable of excellent results. However, they're inherently limited by the fixed lens and lack of interchangeable film backs. The Bronica ETR series are probably the best balance between quality, price, and flexibility - you can find a usable one with standard lens, 120 back, and maybe some other bits for £200 or less here, which brings it down to top end 35mm money.

    Whatever you buy, do the research first. I've seen a glut of ETRS which seem to be missing the dark slide and winder crank, while the latter is merely irritating (you can get a speed grip/winder for not a lot of money, weirdly the only person selling the cranks here wants more for them than a winder costs!) the former makes the interchangeable backs useless as you can't remove it from the body unless the dark slide is in place, so you're effectively stuck with the one back. Best advice would be to find which accessories are harder to get hold of separately and then buy one which has them fitted.
     
  16. markbarendt

    markbarendt Subscriber

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    The Debonair is similar in theory and practice to the Holga I started MF with.

    "Toy" cameras like these can produce great work and are fun to use and can teach you a bunch about film. Given the lack of exposure adjustments one of the first lessons will be how to pick the right film for your uses.

    Personally I go for fast (400) to really fast (800+) negative films. These films, color or B&W, are very tolerant of exposure variances. Conversely, transparency films like the E100G you are playing with, like very precise exposures and that's not a really a toy camera's strong point.

    As for the hope of comparing typical 120 film results to typical 35mm results by using the Debonair, um, that's about as scientific as trying to compare strawberries to steak to decide which tastes best.

    The reality is that they can both taste good or bad, just not the same.

    A TLR like you are looking for will provide a better comparison of the capabilities of 120 and 135 film in a technical sense.

    Still and yet, IMO that's a poor way to pick a tool.

    Every camera I own helps me look at and portray the world a bit differently than the others.
     
  17. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    FWIW, in 40+ years I have never worried about removing the tape before the film goes into the developing tank. I do fold it over on to the other side though, to make loading slightly easier.
     
  18. dpt2014

    dpt2014 Member

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  19. cepwin

    cepwin Member

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    Thanks Matt(s) and Mark for the additional input. I shot my first roll which was expired E100g they included. I spoke to bluemoon about getting it processed and she said with expired film like that cross processing is recommended..ie process in C41. My debate now, since I have C41 to do it myself or let them do it. It was really a "try out the new camera" sort of roll. As for cameras I have been looking and I see a lot of Yashica A TLRs on the bay...usually $70-100 but I also see KEH has some nice outfits usually in the $200-300+ range. The reason I'm interested in 120 is the increased resolution of having a bigger negative and the plastic cameras are fun but I want something that is adjustable, etc..and heck..the TLRs just seem cool. :smile: (And I'm sure would give nice results.)
     
  20. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Member

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    A nice TLR is a very good camera. I have a Yashicamat 124 and a Mamiya 645 Pro. The Mamiya is way more versatile with its interchangeable lenses and film backs, the latter allowing film changes in mid roll all you want, and it's AE Prism finder and motor winder grip. It's really just like shooting with a very large 35mm motorized SLR, plus easy mid roll film changes. But I enjoy the Yashicamat more. It's much smaller and lighter and easier to carry when doing something else, even accounting for also carrying my Luna Pro SBC light meter, which is a big handful of meter. No midroll film changes and no lens changes which can be limiting but can also be "focusing" - use your feet to zoom (not always possible though) and decide what film you are going to need for what you are about to shoot. If you can live with the fixed lens and no mid roll film changes and think you'd like one, go ahead and get a good TLR. If you get a good one and don't like it you can almost certainly sell it at little if any loss.

    I stick the tape down all the way too. When ready to process I peel the tape loose with the lights on. I just hold the film and backing paper down with one hand (you have to hold it anyway, just be sure you hold the end down) and peel the tape with a thumbnail on the other hand. Once the tape is loose I can turn the light off with the hand that just peeled loose the tape and then load the film. Easier said than explained - there's nothing to it. Loading the 120 film on a reel takes a bit of practice but you'll get it down and on some reels anyway once you get the hang of it it's easier.

    Just how expired is the E100G? If it expired in the past couple of years and has not been stored in hot conditions, room temperature or cooler, I'd just have it E6 processed. If it's very old, that's different. You can cross process it, but bear in mind that people do this for the wild color and effects and you aren't going to get a good comparison of formats comparing that to normally exposed and processed 35mm film.
     
  21. cepwin

    cepwin Member

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    Thanks Roger. It's 2005 and has been in cold storage..so perhaps E6 would be better? Yes, they seem very nice....I definitely want one it's just a matter of what I want to do now. I did notice the Mamiya does have interchangeable lenses so a $300 Mamiya might be a better investment than a Yashica just for the versatility.
     
  22. Roger Cole

    Roger Cole Member

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    The Mamiya TLRs do have interchangeable lenses, and good ones, but the price you pay isn't so much money as bulk. They're large bulky beasts compared to a Yashica, Rollei or Autocord. Not too bad, I don't mean they're like carrying cinder blocks around or anything, but definitely a lot bigger and heavier. Try to take a look at one in person if you can, or at least see a photo of one with someone holding it and maybe one of the fixed lens ones beside it for comparison.

    2005 - I don't know. That's seven years out so it's hard to say. If it was frozen it's probably fine. Refrigerator, maybe. And if you bought it online you don't know just how honest the seller was about that. I bought 10 rolls of supposedly cold stored and "tested and it works great!" Elitechrome and it's crap. Fit only for cross processing, if that.