Need external tray dimensions for paterson 20x24 trays

Discussion in 'Enlarging' started by wildbill, Aug 14, 2011.

  1. wildbill

    wildbill Member

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    I need to know how much space these take up. If someone could measure one for me. I'm building a new sink and I know from experience that paterson trays are larger than many because of the spout.
    Thanks
     
  2. semi-ambivalent

    semi-ambivalent Subscriber

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    wildbill,

    I asked the same question a while back. If you look for posts by "semi-ambivalent" you'll find the thread. I believe 20x24 was mentioned in it. If not I bet you could get you answer with an email to the great folks at Freestyle.

    s-a
     
  3. wildbill

    wildbill Member

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    No answer on that thread. I'd rather get my answer here, no one can read a ruler like an apuger:smile:
     
  4. Ian C

    Ian C Member

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    External dimensions are:

    25" (side-to-side to spout) x 29 1/4" (front-to-back to spout) x 4 3/8"
     
  5. wildbill

    wildbill Member

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    Excellent, I was going to build the sink 30" deep anyways. I doubt I'll print 20x24 in trays (probably use jobo) anyway but need to prepare for the unexpected. I could always put a mattress in the sink if my wife gets mad at me as well.
     
  6. Ian C

    Ian C Member

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    If you process FB prints in a Jobo tank you’ll likely spoil it.

    Jobo drums are made to just accept color prints that are fully encapsulated in a waterproof resin. Since they are waterproof, RC prints don’t expand because the paper doesn’t get wet.

    A Jobo 3063 20” x 24” print drum will hold the print with the opposite ends just about touching. As an FB print gets soaked with the water component of processing solutions, it increases size significantly. The paper is constrained end-to-end and by the periphery of the drum. The expanded print will buckle like the corrugated layer of a corrugated cardboard shipping box.

    In some cases, the emulsion will be sharply and permanently creased by this buckling. The print can be flattened later, but any sharp creases that form are permanent. B&W RC prints can be processed in a Jobo drum, but FB is best done in trays or a trough.
     
  7. cowanw

    cowanw Member

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    Now that's interesting. Do you know how much the print expands?
    My first thought is to have a 1/4 inch border and pre soak the print and them make sure it overlaps in the tank.
     
  8. richard ide

    richard ide Member

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    Each paper would expand and shrink different amounts. Most expansion is across the grain. I remember using a thin Kodak paper which out of the box was 42" wide. When wet it was over 43" wide.
     
  9. PKM-25

    PKM-25 Member

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    I was looking up info on the 3063 drum and saw this....is anyone successfully developing 20x24 fiber in this drum with a pre-wet?
     
  10. Ian C

    Ian C Member

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    It will develop in the 3063 drum, but the paper will expand significantly as it absorbs water from the processing solutions. The paper will buckle and in some cases the baryta layer and the emulsion will crack open where the paper is sharply buckled.

    The first print I tried this with in 1988 was on Ilford MG IV FB. It came out of the drum looking like the corrugated inner layer of a cardboard box due to expansion and no place for it to expand. It took a long time to flatten the heavily-weighted print so that it could be mounted. In this case the print survived. Other attempts resulted in ruined prints.

    These print drums can be used to process RC papers, but really aren’t suitable for FB paper due to the fact that it attains the consistency of a cooked noodle and expands a great deal with the absorption of water.

    I ran plain water with the print in the drum first to promote even development. The softening and expansion of the paper are the same with or without the presoak.
     
  11. PKM-25

    PKM-25 Member

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    I was thinking more along the lines of a tray pre-wet, then load it into the drum with the overlap referenced above.

    Ilford does Warmtone in RC, I am just not sure how keen I am on selling those to my customers...
     
  12. wildbill

    wildbill Member

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    I think you'd have a hell of a time getting a wet fiber print into that drum because of the "sticky" and soft nature of a wet piece of paper. Think about how well wet paper sticks to plexi when you're squeegying the water off.

    Let me know how it goes, I've yet to try large paper in my drum.
     
  13. PKM-25

    PKM-25 Member

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    It's starting to sound like it is useless for 20x24 fiber paper. I suppose I could try the RC stuff and if I like it, keep the drum, otherwise, I prefer to tray develop anyway...
     
  14. Guillaume Zuili

    Guillaume Zuili Subscriber

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    I find the 20x24 paterson to be too big with not enough space for the print. Cesco or Premier are flat and take much less space than the Paterson. Try with these one. They might fit.
     
  15. wildbill

    wildbill Member

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    Yeah, my generic trays from b&h are smaller on the outside but larger than patterson trays on the inside. I only have three 16x20 pattersons and don't really like them. They are much more rigid and easier to pour out though.
     
  16. Sal Santamaura

    Sal Santamaura Member

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    Over a decade ago Scott Jones worked on how best to process fiber based black and white prints in a Jobo drum. Here are some of his threads:





    I'm not sure whether further searching would reveal any updates he might have posted to address larger prints.

    I use RC paper for some personal purposes, but, if I were ever to sell prints, would only consider offering fiber-based paper.