Need help on Graphic No.1 Kodak Supermatic Shutter

Discussion in 'Large Format Cameras and Accessories' started by cofansy, Jun 16, 2013.

  1. cofansy

    cofansy Member

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    I have bought a Wollensak 3 1/2 in F12.5 with Graphic No.1 Kodak Supermatic Shutter for my 4X5 camera. But the low speeds (speed mark in RED) did not work while the fast speeds (speed mark in BLACK) worked normally. When I tried to open it for maintenance, I failed. After I re-install the spring back , the shutter doesn't work.

    Does anyone have the service/Repair manual of this shutter? I have not have any detail information about that.

    Anyone who has, please inform me by email: cofansy@163.com, Thank you very much!s
     
  2. shutterfinger

    shutterfinger Subscriber

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    faceplate removed.jpg top cover removed.jpg
    ensure arrow items are NOT under the speed ring
     
  3. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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  4. shutterfinger

    shutterfinger Subscriber

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    flutots has a backlog, you have to email them, get put on a waiting list, wait for them to tell you its OK to send it, then wait another 2 to 5 weeks after they receive it. typical of what happens when a one or two person shop gets popular.

    cofansy contact me if you don't get it going. Supermatic service manuals are available from several sources for around $20.
     
  5. cofansy

    cofansy Member

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    Thanks to shutterfinger, I have repaired the shutter. Now it works normally. but the slow speeds(1/10-1) run faster. How to solve this problem? Please advise.
     
  6. E. von Hoegh

    E. von Hoegh Member

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    Send it to a competent technician.
     
  7. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Put sand in the shutter mechanism. That should slow it down. :whistling:
     
  8. shutterfinger

    shutterfinger Subscriber

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    1. Adjust the retard sector travel by loosening the retard gear plate screw(s) so that the retard sector will pass freely under the gear and mesh so that the sector stud is approximately 1/8 inch from the shutter case. Manual says outer edge of the sector but I have found this results in insufficient sector travel. I do not know if this is due to a misprint or not. The sector stud is opposite the press to focus button. Secure retard gear plate and verify retard sector travels smoothly by setting and tripping the shutter, the B&T levers will have to be operated manually to close the shutter.
    2. Remove material from the speed ring where the retard sector stud contacts it.
    3. Remove material from the speed ring where the pallet stud contacts it.
    4. Clean delay gear train.
    5. Reduce tension on the main drive spring.
    (2-5 is the order listed in the manual)

    .001 difference on the speed ring makes a big difference in speeds. Adjusting the 1 to 1/10 speeds may put the 1/25 to 1/100 speed off. Remove material from the speed ring as a last resort. The main cocking spring attach point by the B lever can be rotated on its post. The sector stud can be moved .001 to .002 either side of perpendicular if the sector travel is correct.

    On the last few of these I serviced its been a tradeoff to get the speeds 1/100 and slower to be acceptable.

    I am a competent tech.
     
  9. cofansy

    cofansy Member

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    Thanks shutterfinger, but I am in China. It costly and with some risk to mail the shutter.
    Now I have another problem: My Hugo Meyer Plasmat convertible lens 320mm/220mm together 153mm. Its shutter is jamed. The B is OK, but other speeds exclude 1/200 jamed. The shutter blade open a little (about 3mm) and can not release. I tried to open it as normal compur shutter, but the ring which is attached to the front and adapt to the lens element can not be removed. So the front cover of the shutter can not be removed to open the shutter for maintenance.

    Does anyone knows how to remove the adapt ring or other mathord to open the shutter for repair? Thank you very much!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2013
  10. shutterfinger

    shutterfinger Subscriber

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    Supermatic: moving retard sector stud toward case increases (slows) speed; moving retard sector toward shutter center decreases (shortens) speeds. Delay pallet stud toward case slows speeds, toward shutter center shortens shutter speeds. Delay pallet stud should be at its travel limit toward the shutter center for the 200 and 400 speeds.

    Compur:
    face plate attach 1: remove retainer screw, turn small circular lock with a flat side and two holes in it until flat is next to shutter center, push faceplate counterclockwise until tabs align with slots in in center of shutter then lift off. Installation is reverse of removal.
    face plate attach 2: remove retaining screw from center ring, unscrew the center retaining ring by turning counter clockwise and remove, lift face plate off shutter. Installation: make sure face plate is clocked correctly and the pins and levers fit into the recesses of the under side correctly, install the retaining ring turning clockwise until snug then check the 1 second speed and the rotation of the speed selector ring. The 1 second speed should be .8 to 1.2 seconds and the speed ring should turn smoothly. Install the retaining ring screw into the hole that is in alignment or turn the retaining ring counterclockwise until the closest to aligned hole is in alignment.

    I'm using standard manual terms.
     
  11. cofansy

    cofansy Member

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    Thank you. I see the standard process to open the compur shutter. But on the Hugo mayer lens shutter, it attached a adapt ring for quick release the lens elements( about 90 degree to change). The adapt ring attached to the front of the shutter so firmly that I can not remove it. The ring block the three tabs to remove from the slots after I turned the front panel. I can not maintain the shutter without the front panel removed. Any suggestion to me?
     
  12. shutterfinger

    shutterfinger Subscriber

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 20, 2013
  13. cofansy

    cofansy Member

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    I just tried to open the shutter from the backside. But when I did that to remove the blade shutter, I have no way to continue. The pic is as attached. the first three is the front adapt ring, which cause I have no idea to open it from the front. The last is where I can not continue. I have removed the 3 pieces of shutter blade. But I can not continue. Please advise.

    adapt ring.jpeg outside.jpeg inside.jpeg shutter blade from back.jpeg
     
  14. shutterfinger

    shutterfinger Subscriber

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    That appears to be the lens barrel or a spacer barrel. It should be screwed into the shutter. They can become stuck or corroded in place.
    1. Grip the barrel with a strap wrench and try to loosen it. Be careful not to bend or deform the barrel. You may need to remove the shutter from the lens board and grip it with a second strap wrench.
    2. Heat your oven to its lowest setting usually 150°F/65°C for gas or 175°F/79°C for electric. When the oven reaches temperature turn it off and place the shutter in the center of the oven on a rack and let it sit there for 15 to 20 minutes. Remove the shutter from the oven and try to unscrew the barrel from the shutter. Should be standard threads.
    3. Seal the shutter in a plastic bag and freeze it. Once frozen thaw and try to unscrew the barrel.
    4. Last resort apply penetrating oil around the outside of the barrel at the shutter and allow to soak in for 12 to 24 hours.
     
  15. cofansy

    cofansy Member

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    unfortunately, I have no oven to heat it. I have tried to freeze it, no work.I will boil it in a sealed Locker-Locker box in hot water. As a result, the method 1&3 doesn't work....So sad ....
     
  16. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Did you try sautéing it in butter?
     
  17. Sirius Glass

    Sirius Glass Subscriber

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    Really now, just send it to KEH.