negs seem a bit pink

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by jbl, Aug 8, 2011.

  1. jbl

    jbl Member

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    Hi,

    I just tried my first roll of C-41. I've done B&W for a few years, but this is my first foray into color.

    I shot a test roll of Ektar 100 out in front of my house and developed it in the Rollei Kit. The roll is still drying, but the negatives look pinker than what I've gotten from the lab.

    The instructions with the chemicals say that a magenta cast with higher density near the sprocket holes means the developer was too warm or the agitation was too much. I think I'm seeing a magenta cast, but the density of the negatives is consistent. If anything, they look a little thin, but it's hard to tell for sure because they're hanging in my shower.

    Does it sound like I over agitated or had the developer too warm?

    Thanks,

    Jonathan
     
  2. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    Have you used this film before? Not all color negative films look the same.

    I am not familiar with the Rollei kit. Does it use a stop bath after the developer and before the bleach. I have found that the developing agent left in the emulsion will cause a magenta stain when exposed to the bleach. An acid stop bath will help remove most of it and reduce any magenta cast.
     
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  3. jbl

    jbl Member

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    Sorry, I should have been clearer on that. I was comparing it to a roll of Ektar I got back from a lab recently, so it's the same.

    I'm guessing I can easily correct for this when I scan (I know....), but I was concerned I was doing something wrong.

    -jbl
     
  4. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    A lab may not use standard C-41 chemistry other than the developer.
     
  5. jbl

    jbl Member

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    It does not use a stop before the bleach, though people seem to say that's ok in this kit, but recommend adding a wash step before and after fixing. I did add the washes.
     
  6. jbl

    jbl Member

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    Sounding like maybe I didn't mess it up :smile:. I guess if the images look good, it hardly marters. Still, a little amazed this was that straightforward.

    Jonathan
     
  7. tomalophicon

    tomalophicon Member

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    Maybe when they dry they will be different.
     
  8. polyglot

    polyglot Member

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    C41 looks very strange and milky when it's wet. Don't bother looking at it until it's dry.
     
  9. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    You may be thinking of the older C-22 films which were very hard to evaluate until they were dry. In C-22 emulsions the dye couplers were contained in microscopic resin beads. This prevented the couplers from migrating during development. Agfa used a different system where the couplers had long side chains to prevent migration. Sort of like a boat dragging an anchor. When exposed to water the beads become opaque. With C-41 films Kodak adopted the Agfa method which does not have the milkiness problem.
     
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  10. polyglot

    polyglot Member

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    No, I'm talking about C-41, which I develop at home. I've never seen a C-22 film, let alone wet.

    If you're used to B&W, a wet C-41 film looks a bit underfixed. Some moreso than others.
     
  11. Greg Davis

    Greg Davis Member

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    I have found that the Ektar base is more pink in color than other films, which seem more orange.
     
  12. GeorgK

    GeorgK Member

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    If one goes directly from the developer into the bleach (also minilabs do this), the film mask may come out a little darker. This is because the colour developer reacts with the bleach (don't ask me for details; i guess the developer is oxidised by the bleach and then reacts with the dye couplers to form dyes). A stop bath after development (wash only would prolong development and cause streaks) omits the effect by removing the developer first and leads to a clearer base, which usually looks more "pinkish" (compared to the otherwise "brownish" results).

    Georg
     
  13. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Kodak did NOT adopt the Agfa method. Agfa adopted the Kodak method!!!

    C-41 films are still pinker and slightly translucent than they are when dry. They are similar to C-22 films in this regard.

    PE
     
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  15. Gerald C Koch

    Gerald C Koch Member

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    I think "slightly" is the keyword hear.
     
  16. jbl

    jbl Member

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    It looks like I did mess up the processing. The scans from the negatives are very cyan, I have to pump the WB to 50,000k and skew the tint way towards the magenta range in order to get the colors to look remotely normal. The grain looks okay in comparison to what I've seen before. Is there any way to tell if it's over agitation or too-warm developer?

    -jbl
     
  17. Greg Davis

    Greg Davis Member

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    The developer, ideally, should be used at 100°F (37.8°C) to get proper color. Is this the temperature you used? Is your thermometer accurate? Over agitation would produce slightly too contrasty negatives, not strong color cast. Did you mix the developer with distilled water? Impurities in tap water could cause problems, but perhaps not this severe. Are you using the proper settings in your scanner? The film may be fine and you were only correcting a bad scan.
     
  18. jbl

    jbl Member

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    I checked my thermometers before developing and calibrated everything. I waited until the developer hit 100 before I started, but I think my water bath may have been around 102. I'll recheck my thermometers and try again with the next test roll and see how it goes.

    Thanks for the help!

    -jbl
     
  19. Greg Davis

    Greg Davis Member

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    Did you use a water rinse between the bleach and fix steps, and again after the fix? When I first used the Rollei kit I followed their directions which didn't include these rinses, and got awful color crossover.
     
  20. jbl

    jbl Member

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    I did a ~3 minute wash after bleach and after the fix. On each wash, I filled the tank with tempered water, agitated for 15 seconds, then a few times at each minute, dumping the water once around half way through. I wasn't quite sure on the wash procedure for this, so I just guessed.

    I bleached for 4 minutes which is on the high end of what the Rollei instructions say (though the Kodak instructions say 6.5 minutes). I fixed for 5 minutes.

    -jbl
     
  21. Greg Davis

    Greg Davis Member

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    Bleach and fix for 6.5 minutes just to be sure. Over doing it can't hurt, but standard C-41 is 6.5 minutes.
     
  22. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    There should be a good WASH after the bleach and after the fix. In addition to carryover which can affect the color and capacity of the solutions, the blix is oxidized to some extent in the fix and causes many problems. If you do it wrong, the fix becomes colored like the bleach, and the stabilizer even takes on that color if you severely underdo the washes.

    PE
     
  23. jbl

    jbl Member

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    What's your preferred way of washing?

    Also, I just read the Kodak Z-131 documents on processing and they describe an agitation technique I'm not familiar with:

    Am I reading this right? It seems to be saying that you lift the tank up out of the water bath and put it back down. There's not an inversion step. There's also a part about nitrogen-based solutions, but that's outside of my capabilities at home :smile:.

    Thanks again,

    -jbl
     
  24. Greg Davis

    Greg Davis Member

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    That agitation technique is for very large racks of film, not a couple rolls in small tanks.
     
  25. jbl

    jbl Member

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    still too magenta

    I tried another roll today and was much more careful about the temperature. I also extend the bleach and fix times to 6.5 minutes and did a full wash under running water for 3:15 before and after the fix.

    The results appear to be much the same. I'm attaching a photo below if that helps at all. Is it possible I mixed the chemicals improperly or something? I don't know how vigorous you need to mix the different parts of the color developer in the Rollei kit. I wasn't crazy about it.
     

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  26. polyglot

    polyglot Member

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    They look a bit underexposed but that's about it. Have you tried printing or scanning them?