Newton Rings - Argggggggh

Discussion in 'Darkroom Equipment' started by Matt5791, Sep 5, 2006.

  1. Matt5791

    Matt5791 Subscriber

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    Does anyone know how to banish newton rings? short of removing the top glass in my LPL neg carrier?

    I find it only a problem with 35mm - 6x6 is ok, I guess because it is easier for the glass to sit flat on it.

    Any ideas?

    Thanks,
    Matt
     
  2. Dave Miller

    Dave Miller Member

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    It's often associated with dampness?
     
  3. benjiboy

    benjiboy Subscriber

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    A 35mm L.P.L. glassless negative carrier can bought from Nova at www.novadarkroom.com for £ 56. 99 or failing that you might ask them if they sell anti-newton glass inserts for your existing carrier.
     
  4. Tom Kershaw

    Tom Kershaw Subscriber

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    Interesting. I've been having "issues" with Newton's Rings the last few days. I have been printing 35mm Kodak Portra negs, whereas I usually print 120 black & white negs with no Newton's Rings issues. If you do a search on this site, you'll come across some very useful information. The rings have only appeared on some prints from the 35mm colour negs.

    Printing with a Magnifax 4a enlarger and Nova 12x16 Quad processor for RA-4. EDIT: I use the glass negative carrier.

    Tom.
     
  5. Loose Gravel

    Loose Gravel Member

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    Matt

    I don't know what your light source is, but true diffuse light cannot create Newton rings. Change the top glass to a diffuse type, i.e. white plexi or frosted glass. Or just switch to a glassless carrier. There is a whole world out there that doesn't use glass.
     
  6. Jon Shiu

    Jon Shiu Subscriber

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    You can buy a anti-newton ring glass to replace the upper glass. Costs about $30 from calumetphoto.com.

    Jon
     
  7. psvensson

    psvensson Member

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    I've never heard about the diffuse light thing. I certainly got Newton rings with my Durst M605 and color head, which is supposed to be diffuse. I got some cheap anti-Newton glass custom cut by Focal Point: http://www.fpointinc.com/
     
  8. Loose Gravel

    Loose Gravel Member

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    I has to be completely diffuse. The angles that the light impinges on the neg must be completely random, thus diffusion must occur at the surface of the neg. If you do add this diffusor, sometimes you can delete the diffusor at the light source, at least this works with coldlights.

    Review this link:

    http://www.apug.org/forums/showthread.php?t=30016&highlight=diffusion
     
  9. Jim Noel

    Jim Noel Member

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    A simple and inexpensive solution is to replace the glass which contacts the negastive with Anti-glare glass from a frame shop. the slightly textured side should contact the negative.

    No, the texture does not show in the print. I have this in most of my contact printers.
     
  10. david b

    david b Member

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    I am currently using an Omega glass carrier that has one piece of anti-newton glass and one plain piece of glass. The anti-newton piece is on the top.

    This is a 4x5 carrier but this is how I print my 35mm xpan negatives full frame.
     
  11. L Gebhardt

    L Gebhardt Subscriber

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    I am also having problems with Newton rings. I am using a glass pin registered carrier with color negative film. Some days the rings are there badly and others I don't see them at all. Must be the humidity.

    I am going to order a can of Prazio's Anti-Newton spray and the appropriate cleaning supplies since I really need to use the glass carrier.
     
  12. Matt5791

    Matt5791 Subscriber

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    Thanks for the replies everyone.

    I had thought about a glassless carrier, but then I'm always worried about the negative not sitting flat.

    I also thought about using anti newton glass, but then I read comments in Ansel Adams "The Print" book basically saying avoid anti newton glass.

    I think I will check out the glassless carriers though.

    Matt
     
  13. firecracker

    firecracker Member

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    So, you are using non-AN glass carrier and having the Newton Rings issue, right? What did Ansel Adams say to avoid the ring effect?
     
  14. Alan9940

    Alan9940 Member

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    Hello Matt,

    I have heard quite a few guesses over the years as to what exactly causes Newton Rings. The most plausible is humidity and/or refraction of light within any glass above the negative. I contacted printed 8x10, only, for about 10 years and was plagued with the "rings" despite running a dehumidifier in my darkroom. Therefore, I'm not too sure about humidity causing the issue.

    Many years ago, though, Ron Wisner (of Wisner cameras) became intrigued with my NR issue though he wasn't having a problem himself. Btw, we both lived on the east coast, then, so, again, not sure about that humidity idea. Ron's best guess was refracting light within the glass and that eliminating the reflections should, at least, minimize the occurrance of rings. I sent him a sheet of plate (1/4" thick) glass to which he applied a single coating to one side just like the coating used on camera lenses. According to Ron, this would eliminate about 97% of any refraction within the glass itself. The day I got it back I rushed into the darkroom with a VERY challenging neg--a landscape with a lot of sky and white clouds (about 3/4 of the image was in the Zone VI to XI range!); no Newton Rings! I was excited to say the least! Over the next week or so I printed many negs with no NR rings to be seen. About 18 years later now the glass has a couple of bubbles which render it useless for 8x10, but I can still use it for 4x5. Btw, I tried other solutions like frosted glass and for contact printing, anyway, found it useless. True, no NR, but your image will look like it was shot on TMZ 3200!

    Not really a solution for you, but I thought you might enjoy one photographer's story of dealing with this problematic issue.
     
  15. TimVermont

    TimVermont Subscriber

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    Replace the glass with Water White coated Denglas. The UK dealer info is:
    United Kingdom
    Glass & Mirror, Ltd
    Brook Way
    Unit 2
    Leatherhead
    Surry, England KT22 7NA
    0137-237-7738
     
  16. menglert

    menglert Member

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    Frosted glass is the easiest and cheapest fix IMHO.

    I was having problems with my 24x25 contact printing frame. Finally I settled on frosted glass 1/8 inch. This was the cheapest option and it also completely eliminated the rings. Place the textured side against the negative, and you're good to go.

    Regards,
    Martin
     
  17. Ed Sukach

    Ed Sukach Member

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    "Newton's Rings" are interference patterns caused by in - and out phasing of light in a tiny, irregular wedge of space. A glassless carrier *will* cure the problem, by eliminating the surface/s that form the "wedge".

    Controlled interference with critically flat surfaces is used a lot in fine measurements of flatness error and comparisons with known standards. That measuring system is known as "interferometry" and I've been familiar with its use for many moons.

    Either use a glassless carrier - depth of field (remember, this is a projection system) is deep enough to compensate for minor flatness errors, or increase the separation between the negative and glass surfaces - something like *very* thin shims (saran wrap, maybe?) should be sufficient.
     
  18. Brian Jeffery

    Brian Jeffery Member

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    FirstCall are now the UK importers of LPL enlargers give them a call and they should be able to supply you with AntiNewton Ring glass for the LPL. Mine (LPL 7700) cost £18.99 + P&P a few weeks ago.



    Brian
     
  19. Brian Jeffery

    Brian Jeffery Member

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    FirstCall are on 01823 413007


    Brian
     
  20. resummerfield

    resummerfield Subscriber

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    When I made a glass carrier, I also used the Water White Denglas. I have never had a problem with NR.