No more Dektol - what dev should I buy?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by gnashings, Jun 16, 2005.

  1. gnashings

    gnashings Inactive

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    I have always used Dektol for prints. Its excellent for my needs and I think all around its a wonderful, classic looking paper dev.

    But I will no longer buy anything in a yellow box (or bag). Screw them.

    So, the question is:

    What should I buy that will approximate the feel, ease of use, deep blacks and flexibility of Dektol? I would prefer Ilford products, on principle - but am totally unfamiliar with their paper developers.

    Thanks for any help in advance!

    Peter.
     
  2. Jim Chinn

    Jim Chinn Member

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    You can make dektol from scratch pretty easily. Photographers Formulary also sells there own devloper that is a dektol clone as well as all the chemistry to make your own. Ilford has a duplicate also.
     
  3. lee

    lee Member

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    zone vi from calumet photo is a great substitute for Dektol also


    lee\c
     
  4. Canuck

    Canuck Member

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    I use the liquid stuff from Agfa, both the Neutol WA and the Multicontrast developer.
     
  5. gnashings

    gnashings Inactive

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    Great, easier than I thought! In my current conditions it would be easier to use over the shelf stuff than mix my own - so which Ilford product is the Dektol clone?

    And I whould give PF a "call" - they certainly deserve my money - waht a great idea!

    Thanks all,

    Peter.
     
  6. lee

    lee Member

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    I am not familiar with the Dektol clone from Ilford I am sure they have one I just dont know it

    lee\c
     
  7. Jim Chinn

    Jim Chinn Member

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    I think it is called Bromophen in Europe, not sure of the US name.
     
  8. Nick Zentena

    Nick Zentena Member

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    Well I'd suggest calling Fotochem in Montreal. Save on shipping,taxes and price.

    Mixing your own is easier then mixing those little pouches up IMHO.

    If you really don't want to buy the chemicals then just go to Henry's and get yourself a bottle of Agfa's Multicontrast. You'll quickly learn to like it.
     
  9. jim appleyard

    jim appleyard Member

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    Ethol makes PLD; pretty versatile stuff. You can read abut it at: bkaphoto.com. I'm not sure if it's still made as a liquid, but the powder should be no problem for you if you liked Dektol.
     
  10. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Since I'm lazy and also a bit stingy, I mix my own Ansco 130. If you're a little less stingy you can buy it from Photographers Formulary. Great developer that lasts forever - I make a new batch once or twice a year.
     
  11. John Bartley

    John Bartley Member

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    Now, don't everyone jump on all at once for what I'm about to suggest, but as a newbie (just a year) at this LF photography, and as a person who loves to experiment, I have tried using divided D23 on Ilford paper and it seemed to work quite nicely, giving dark blacks and nice whites. The caveat was that the bath "B" needs to be fresh, but it's just Borax anyway, so...
    It didn't work anywhere near as nicely on AZO, leaving it very grainy. The advantage to the D23 is that the dry chemicals are available from JDFotochem in Montreal and it's easy to mix, AND it's what I use for my film also (most of the time anyway, except for the odd bit of Rodinal so that I don't get booted out of the congregation :smile: )
     
  12. gma

    gma Member

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    Freestyle sells several paper developers under their own brand name plus a number of others.
     
  13. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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  15. jim appleyard

    jim appleyard Member

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    D23D for paper? There's a new one!
     
  16. Gerald Koch

    Gerald Koch Member

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    Ilford Bromophen (ID-62) is a nice developer. You can purchase this or mix your own formulas a readily available on the web.
     
  17. mjs

    mjs Member

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    Ethol's LPD print developer works as a satisfactory substitute for Dektol at the 1:4 dilution (for me, anyway.) Comes both as a powder or as a liquid (I always used the liquid.) You can change the image tone by changing the dilution. A bit more expensive than Dektol, in my experience, but that's about the only difference I could detect. Photographer's Formulary also makes an "improved Dektol" which works just fine, as well.

    mjs
     
  18. Tom Stanworth

    Tom Stanworth Member

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    I have used both Ilford bromophen, Ilford Multigrade, Agfa neutols, forte cold tone and tetenal eukobrom.

    All are excellent at their job. I have a batch of 25 roses images I did, some with bromophen and some Neutol. The huge amount of black in the print ate the developer at an astonshing rate (20x16 prints too). I ran out of bromophen after 15 prints or so. They are indistinguishable. I have found bromophen a touch less contrasty than the MG devs. I personally would not go to the trouble of making up my own with such superb liquid devs about....unless I too was feeling mean and then ansco 130 sounds good!
     
  19. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    There are many excellent paper developer recipes posted in the APUG Chemical Recipes.

    If you are looking for a Dektol-Bromophen- Multigrade replacement, Ilford Universal Concentrated Liquid Developer will do very nicely indeed:

    http://www.apug.org/forums/article.php?a=36

    If you are looking for a Neutol WA replacement, then ID-78 Warm Tone paper developer is my choice:

    http://www.apug.org/forums/article.php?a=23

    Ansco 130 is a great and classic print developer, by adjusting dilutions and adding/subtracting potassium brominde and benzotriazole you can achieve a wide range of image color, etc. with Ansco 130 (the same thing is true of the two previously listed developers as well):

    http://www.apug.org/forums/article.php?a=63
     
  20. Zathras

    Zathras Subscriber

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    Why not get a good scale and bulk chems and make D-72, a genuine Kodak formula that is for all purposes the same as Dektol. Then you could have the satisfaction of using a developer that behaves exactly like like dektol, from an official Kodak formula, without paying a penny to Kodak.

    Mike Sullivan
     
  21. Maine-iac

    Maine-iac Member

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    The Ansco 125 formula which is floating around all over the place is essentially the same as Dektol. Ansco 130 is close, but uses glycin which Dektol doesn't. Very easy, and much cheaper to mix your own.

    Larry
     
  22. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

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    Metol-Hydroquinone Developer GAF 125
    Source: The Compact Photo-Lab-Index, Morgan & Morgan, 1977

    Water (125 F or 52 C)-------------------------------------750.0 ml
    Metol-------------------------------------------------------3.0 grams
    Sodium Sulfite (anhydrous)--------------------------------- 44.0 grams
    Hydroquinone---------------------------------------------- 12.0 grams
    Sodium Carbonate (monohydrated)-------------------------- 65.0 grams
    Potassium Bromide------------------------------------------- 2.0 grams
    Add cold water to make------------------------------------- 1.0 liter

    Paper Development: Dilute 1 part stock solution with 2 parts water. Develop 1 to 2 minutes at 68 F (20 C).

    For softer and slower development dilute 1 part stock solution with 4 parts water and develop 1.5 to 3 minutes at 68 F (20 C).


    Kodak Developer D-72
    Source: The Compact Photo-Lab-Index, Morgan & Morgan, 1977

    Water (125 F or 52 C)-------------------------------------750.0 ml
    Elon (Metol)-------------------------------------------------3.0 grams
    Sodium Sulfite (anhydrous)--------------------------------- 45.0 grams
    Hydroquinone---------------------------------------------- 12.0 grams
    Sodium Carbonate (monohydrated)-------------------------- 80.0 grams
    Potassium Bromide------------------------------------------- 2.0 grams
    Add cold water to make------------------------------------- 1.0 liter

    Paper Development: Dilute 1 part stock solution with 2 parts water. Develop 1 to 2 minutes at 68 F (20 C).

    For warmer tones, dilute 1 part stock solution with 3 or 4 parts water and add 8ml of 10% Potassium Bromide solution per liter of working developer. Develop 1.5 minutes at 68 F (20 C).
     
  23. dancqu

    dancqu Member

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    QUOTES = John Bartley

    Divided D23 for prints. Is that the 7.5 gr. metol and 100
    gr. sulfite D23 1st bath with a ? grams borax 2nd bath?

    "... I have tried using divided D23 on Ilford paper and it seemed to
    work quite nicely, giving dark blacks and nice whites. The caveat was
    that the bath "B" needs to be fresh, but it's just Borax anyway, so ..."

    Metol only paper developers do a good job but use carbonate.
    Ansco 120 is one well known. Beer's A is the same formula as
    Ansco 120 but 2/3 the strength. Those two plus Beutler's and
    FX-1 film developers all make good print developers.

    One needs only Metol, S. Sulfite, and S. Carbonate for that group
    to process film and paper. Add borax for the Divided D23.
    Have you tried S. Sulfite for that "B" bath? A 1 or 2%
    strength should do as well. Dan
     
  24. gnashings

    gnashings Inactive

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    Well, I'll behonest with you - I am fairly new to the darkroom (not totally, but somewhat), and I have always been very weary of mixing my own, simply because I believe in the old engineering adage which shows a direct relationship between reliability and the number of moving parts in a given device. In this case, I am the device, and all the things I do are the moving parts :wink:

    Seriously though, I have been very weary of mixing simply because it was one more variable (read: thing I can screw up). But after all the time you guys took to write down your considerable knowledge in this field, I feel I should give it a try. This mixing seems like someting I can do in my laundry sink without need for special equipment or ridiculous adherence to temperatures, etc. One more thing - how dangerous are these processes. Is there anything here that is so harmful that it requires more than the usual common sense and workplace clenliness?

    Thanks again,

    Peter.
     
  25. Nick Zentena

    Nick Zentena Member

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    One of the advantage of mixing your own is you remove one varialbe. Is Kodak/Ilford/Agfa/etc going to change what they sell you? Maybe they change it to save money. Maybe they change it for some other reason. But it happens.

    Equipment? Buy yourself a set of kitchen measuring spoons. That's how basic it can be. Or spend $20 and get a scale.

    Safety depends on the chemical. Different things have different levels of dangerous. Some are safer then the chemicals you already have in the laundry room. Some are the SAME chemicals. Some can be more dangeroug. Spending a little time reading and learning some basic safety rules is all it takes.

    Start with Jack's

    http://www.jackspcs.com/

    Then buy
    http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0240801962/103-5719078-0151848?v=glance


    I mix to final dilution. I don't normally make stock solutions. That makes mixing my chemicals much easier then mixing up a package of dry chemicals from the store.

    Once you've done some reading go to:

    http://www.jdphotochem.com/

    You'll have almost anything you need more or less next day. At good prices. No worries about customs.
     
  26. John Bartley

    John Bartley Member

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    Hi Dan,

    No, I have't tried that (yet :smile:), and yes, I was using the 7.5+100 gram version. So far I've only tried varying the amounts of the components. I assumed from reading, that the "B" bath needed to be an alkaline "activator". I've also wondered about the term "divided". It's not really is it? It's more "extended" :smile:

    cheers