NOW THIS can be a total game changer--flexible image sensor

Discussion in 'Miscellaneous Equipment' started by johnielvis, Jun 21, 2013.

  1. johnielvis

    johnielvis Member

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    view camera movements or selective focus by flexing the sensor perhaps? OR correct the lens abberaterions--make a swirly "portraitpetzval" totally sharp over the whole illuminated field?
    http://www.designnews.com/author.asp?section_id=1392&doc_id=264564

    this is digital, but has anyone tried maybe stretching a piece of film say by warping it with heat or pouring a wetplate on a curved surface to shoot?
     
  2. erikg

    erikg Member

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    Well film is already flexible. All sorts of curved film plane cameras out there, especially in pinhole. Your imagination is the only limit!
     
  3. LiamG

    LiamG Member

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    Isn't that how every rotating lens panoramic camera works?
     
  4. Ambar

    Ambar Member

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    I've opened/dismantled three disposable cameras just out of curiosity and they all had curved film planes (concave). I assumed it was to correct or avoid distortion from the single plastic element they had for lenses.
    I was quite surprised at how ingenious and elegant of a solution this was considering the product!
     
  5. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    dude

    the problem is that people have virtually no imagination ..
    most images made with film or digital are about as interesting
    as watching paint dry.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2013
  6. summicron1

    summicron1 Subscriber

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    actually the film planes in cheap cameras are curved to compensate for the fact that the lenses are so cheap they are not computed to project a flat image on film -- the curve compensates for that , not distortion.

    Interestingly, most Minox camera lenses were also made to work with a curved film plane, which is why the camera clamps the film against the pressure plate for exposures and frees it up between exposures. Minox enlargers also use a curved film holder, not to achieve any particular sharpness advantage, but because they use the same type lens as in the camera.

    Most recent minox cameras use a flat film plane and recomputed lens.
     
  7. mrred

    mrred Subscriber

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    All this time and money spent keeping the film surface flat and distortion free.....it becomes art to step backwards... It's time to consider what art actually is. It's flat for me.
     
  8. johnielvis

    johnielvis Member

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    I mean curved in TWO dimensions--like spherical--not just cylindrical...that's what I mentioned heating the film or pouring over a SPHERICAL surface. That would provide full corrections around the view field.

    but a sensor--or a whole bunch of pieces of film, say can be individulally manipulated in a camera back in out and tilted in two dimensions to give incredible LOCAL image control. not just over the single flat sheet, but locally.

    we all know what's been done with single dimension curvature...I'm talking two dimensions curvature here--like the inside of a bowl, say or the outside of a basketball
     
  9. Peltigera

    Peltigera Member

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    That is how eyes work - we all have curved retinas! If cameras all had hemi-spherical films then we would not want to try flat ones. Hemi-spherical would just look too natural.
     
  10. MaximusM3

    MaximusM3 Member

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    Jackpot! :smile:
     
  11. alanrockwood

    alanrockwood Member

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    What johnielvis says here is key.... curved in TWO dimensions. A surface curved in two dimensions like a part of a sphere is what the boat-building people call a "non-developable" surface. That means it cannot be formed by simply bending a sheet of material, like a plate of steel in the case of a boat, or a sheet of film in the case of a camera.

    Fitting a sheet of film to a non-developable surface would require stretching or compressing the film in addition to bending it, somewhat in the manner of a rubber sheet.
     
  12. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    this can already do this sort of thing, now, with analog materials.
    plastic can be shaped into any shape imaginable, coated with liquid emulsion
    and printed. i was doing this in the 1980s ..

    its like anything, without imagination its just another bad photograph or digital image
    masquerading as something interesting because of how it was made.
     
  13. E. von Hoegh

    E. von Hoegh Member

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    Take a look at a Minox subminiature.
     
  14. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    plus one
     
  15. johnielvis

    johnielvis Member

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    the cheap cameras are curved like a cylinder not like a sphere--there is a HUGE difference.

    minox is the same--curved like a cylinder--curved like a sphere is very very different.

    They guy with the comment about the boat surface--he gets it.

    I'm talking about like a solar dish--the homemade kind--where people use discoball mirrors on a parabolic surface of revolution--you can't put a piece of film on a surface like that without warping it--heating and stretching. The eye, yes--that's the same thing too--spherical surface. But if there's a way, say using air pressure or something to warp a surface on the fly, so it can be controlled, this can result in amazing image control.

    a bunch of sensors on a flexible surface can be individuially manipulated...say to increase the angle of projection to eliminate cos^4 falloff. they can be pushed and pulled back and forth individually to change the plane of focus" AND angle of incidence. This is what's not been done before, sorry to say-except, perhaps, with astronomy--where they use multiple telescopes to make a composite image--that is similar.

    Lenses are axisymmetric with spherical curvatures---they want to project an axisymmetric image focused on a surface of revolution with finite curvature--so the natural focus surface is approximated by a sphere, not cylindrical (cheap or minox) or planar (regular filmholder).
     
  16. AgX

    AgX Member

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    johnielvis,

    I don't get your point. (And yes, I understand the difference between 1-axis, multi-axis and spherical bending.)

    But as long as the substrate that sensor layer is fixed to is as much or rather as less flexible as our film base, I do not see any advantage.

    With proper materials such flexibility beyond the above can already be achieved in the analogue world.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 24, 2013