Old fashioned film ???

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by thefizz, Jun 17, 2005.

  1. thefizz

    thefizz Subscriber

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    When a B&W film is described as old fashioned, what differences would this film have compared to a modern one.

    Efke iso 25 film is said to give an early to mid 20th century look. Does this old look apply to portraits only or landscapes etc.

    Retrophotographic have a new Classic Pan 100 eco film which they say has a real '50s' look. What look is this.

    Thanks,
    Peter
     
  2. noseoil

    noseoil Member

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    Marketing hype. Define an "old look". This is like "silver rich" and other BS. tim
     
  3. TheFlyingCamera

    TheFlyingCamera Membership Council Council

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    Perhaps the biggest difference between "old" and "new" is the silver grain structure - is it a t-grain (tabular grain - where the silver grains are a uniform shape and size, and so produce a finer grain structure for a given speed) or not. Films like Efke, Tri-x, FP4+, Bergger BRF, etc. are all "old" style non- t-grain films. Tmax, Fuji Acros, the Ilford Delta films are all t-grain films. T-grain films are often marked by stronger contrast along with finer grain, and sometimes have a harsher look because of it. The "old" films have a smoother, more gradual tonality, but stronger grain and somewhat less contrast. Of course, the contrast is highly controllable with changes in exposure and development. Grain size becomes a relative issue when you get up into larger formats, and becomes essentially a non-issue when you hit 8x10, unless you're cooking your chemicals in such a way to emphasize grain.
     
  4. avandesande

    avandesande Member

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    My idea of an 'old film' is really a single-layer emulsion. The last of it's kind was super xx. Efke (adox) films were the pioneer of multi-layer films in the 50s, so in a way it is the old new film.
     
  5. jjstafford

    jjstafford Inactive

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    Efke really is different from modern non-tabular (T) grain films, and darned near an alien species compared to T-films.

    Efke 25's color response is quite different from Tri-X 320 (for example). It is more green and red sensitive. Efke 100 PL has a beautiful exposure/density curve for my methods (Rodinal 1:50).

    I don't know if I got a batch variant, but in 4x5 the film is ever so slighty wider in the 4" dimension so that it is an excellent fit in Elite holders; it does not sag or move in the holder.

    Give it a try. It certainly is priced right.
     
  6. garryl

    garryl Member

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  7. thefizz

    thefizz Subscriber

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    Thanks for the info everyone.
     
  8. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    Blue and green, you mean? EFKE 25 and 50 are red-blind, not sensitive to red at all! While EFKE 100 is "normal" panchromatic.

    Ehrm... ADOX / EFKE were the pioneers of thin emulsion film, not multi-layer! EFKE 25 and 50 are both single-layer AFAIK. Super XX was the last of the thick-emulsion films.
     
  9. jjstafford

    jjstafford Inactive

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    I am not comparing Efke 25 with Efke KB or PL 100, but Efke 25 with (for example) Tri-X 320.

    I mean what I wrote. Efke 25 has a greater sensitivity to green and red (compared to blue) than Tri-X 320 film. Can you show me different information? Have you ever tried to develop Efke 25 under red safelight?
     
  10. richardmellor

    richardmellor Member

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    many people feel that foma films will give you a 1930s look .
    people are saying that the house brand at freestyle is foma
    great price too 1.39 a roll.
     
  11. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    http://www.efkefilm.com/

    http://www.jandcphotography.com/efkedata.htm

    And my own experience, and all my photographic literature all the way back to Willi Beutler.
     
  12. jjstafford

    jjstafford Inactive

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    You are avoiding the point. It means nothing unless you put the data side-by-side with Tri-X 320 data.

    Your experience? You said that Efke 25 is red-blind, and I asked if you have ever developed it under red safelight. You clearly have not or you wouldn't dare say that.

    I wasn't born yesterday.
     
  13. eatfrog

    eatfrog Member

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  15. jjstafford

    jjstafford Inactive

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    eatfrog:

    I appreciate the possible correction, but Efke's chart does not give the vertical scale we both need to make our points. I could point to relative comparisons, but we just plain need the correct Efke data.
     
  16. garryl

    garryl Member

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    As long as were into data--

    I read the statement that Super-XX was the last "thick" emulsion film produced. All others after it were the "new" thin coating philosophy. Does anyone using Super-XX have any data that compares the coating thickness of it to modern films?
     
  17. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    I develop all my sheet film by inspection. For PL25 I use a red safelight, for all others a weak green one.

    I have also used R50 for portraits, and seen red lips come out as black.

    The vertical scale on the sensitivity charts is irrelevant - compare 25 and 50 with the 100! The sensitivity of 25 and 50 drop to zero at about 630nm, the KB100 goes to about 680nm, PL100 a little less but with higher sensitivity around 640.

    Try using EFKE 25 withh a dark red filter. It should be easy to see if it comes out darker than expected from "standard" filter factors, or entirely blank.
     
  18. jjstafford

    jjstafford Inactive

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    For gosh sake, how many times are you going to try change the issue? The comparison was 'old' style (efke 25) compared to Tri-X! The two charts given in that case were different - Kokak had vertical metrics and Efke had none!
     
  19. Mongo

    Mongo Member

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    Hmmmmm
     
  20. snaggs

    snaggs Member

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    My dads bigger than your dad? :smile:
     
  21. jjstafford

    jjstafford Inactive

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    Happy Father's Day, snaggs! :smile: (Chances are I'm older than your Dad. No fights!)
     
  22. jjstafford

    jjstafford Inactive

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    Ole - Respectfully, I am not looking for disagreements. Development by inspection using a weak light of the film's least sensitive color is something I did, too. The fact that you don't use a green light with Efke 25 rather affirms that it might be more green sensitive than conventional films, no?

    End of thread for me until I can find, or make, an authoritative source showing the log sensitivity of Efke 25 such as Kokak shows for Tri-X 320. It would benefit all of us to settle the matter with true metrics.
     
  23. Ronald Moravec

    Ronald Moravec Member

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    All you have to do is figure out the filter exposure factor for a 25 red. With normal pan it is 3 stops. With Efke , iti s much more. I did it, but no longer use the film so I do not remember the exact number. 3 extra stops barely puts anything on the neg.

    Orange and red filter require much greater correction.
     
  24. jjstafford

    jjstafford Inactive

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    Which begs the question; why use those filters if that part of the spectrum is practically missing already?
     
  25. garryl

    garryl Member

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    What don't you like a challenge? :D
     
  26. jjstafford

    jjstafford Inactive

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    Sisyphusian 'challenges' are not.