Old Tri-X, new development times

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by David Brown, Sep 5, 2004.

  1. David Brown

    David Brown Subscriber

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    I shot some expired, but refrigerated 120 Tri-x recently. Before processing, I pulled the latest Kodak data from the website and noticed that the development times are vastly different from the last time I developed any Tri-X!!! .

    I know that the film is now different. What I am not sure of, is if the film I shot is the new stuff. I left the boxes in the trash (in Germany) and only have the exposed rolls. I am "almost" certain that it is the old Tri-x, but are there any identifiers that I can use to tell for sure?

    My default is to use D-76 at 1:1, since those times have changed only slightly. I was planning on using HC 110, but the times are really different!

    The Tmax developer is the same (at least at 68 degress), but I've never used it on Tri-x. All comments appreciated.

    Thanks!

    David
     
  2. ann

    ann Subscriber

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    there has been a serious out cry about the changes with the "new trix and hc110. Rumor has it Kodak made a mistake (heaven forbid) and rather than own up; life has gone on.
    For the rest of us we have been using the same times we had been using with the "old". Negatives have been fine.
     
  3. JHannon

    JHannon Member

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    David, I think the HC110 Dil B times are printed wrong for the new Tri-X. Looking at the film box chart it shows 3 3/4 mins at 20C. I have been using the new with my old Tri-X development time of 6 minutes 20C Dil B. The 3 3/4 mins looks more like the Dil A time.

    I really think Kodak misprinted these times.

    I can't say the same about the other developers though...
     
  4. jon koss

    jon koss Subscriber

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    Timely thread for me at least. A couple of months ago I finished the last of my "old" Tri-X Pan (TX 5063 if I recall the film edge correctly) in 35mm. About an hour ago I printed a 5063 first/test print of a laughing boy under the impossibly luminous "cloudy bright" conditions unique to New England in early winter. The tonality is just about enough to make one weep.

    Can folks give me their take on the proposed replacements for Tri-X Pan? Of particular interest to me are those Winogrand highlights. Do films such as Ilford FP4, new Tri-X and who knows what else (Efke, Forte, etc) provide such breathtaking highlight range and gradation? To date I have been using Tri-X Pan and D-76 1:1. I feel something like a sense of grief over the loss of the TXP, but I am hoping that my worry is unfounded.

    Best,
    Jon
     
  5. ThomHarrop

    ThomHarrop Member

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    I have had 60 students use the new Tri-X and the first 20 switched to the new times as the basis for their Zone System testing. It was a disaster. We switched back to the old times and everything was much better. I am not sure what Kodak has done here but I haven't found any of the new times to be even close. The only thing I can suggest is retest to find a speed point and calculate new times from there.

    I just ordered 10 rolls of Efke 120 from J and C and I will post results after I have had time to test it. I have heard good things about it but one never knows. A Tzech photographer I used to know swore by one of the European films but I will have to go back in to some ancient magazine files to find out which one it was.

    Found it. The film was called Orwo. He loved the highlights he got with it, for what it's worth.
     
  6. ThomHarrop

    ThomHarrop Member

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    Just discovered that J and C carries Orwo in 120. It is 125 ISO. I will order some and let you know what I find.
     
  7. lee

    lee Member

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    I shot old trix in Mexico with Jorge and my development times are 6 min with HC110 dil be 68f. I expose at about 160 ei. This is 8x10 film.

    lee\c
     
  8. david b

    david b Member

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    I've been shooting it at iso 400 and developing in xtol 1:1 for 8 minutes which is the old time. I've also done it 1+2 for 10 minutes and it comes out great.
     
  9. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The new Orwo films are rebranded Ilford films. I don't believe that Orwo is actually manufacturing film currently. Orwo was the East German half of Agfa.

    New J&C Classic 400 (or ClassicPan 400 from fotoimpex.de) has some of that old Tri-X Pan (320) character--good density range, long toe, traditional grain structure. I've been shooting both lately in sheet sizes, until my old TXT runs out. I think TXT might look a bit sharper, and TXT is certainly more scratch resistant for tray processing, but visually, I can't say that I like one more than the other. CP400 has the attraction of being the same emulsion in all formats. I've posted a few CP400/ABC pyro (5x7" and 6x9cm) and one TXT/PMK shot (4x5") in the Standard Gallery--

    http://www.apug.org/gallery/showgallery.php?cat=500&ppuser=60
     
  10. clogz

    clogz Subscriber

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    Orwo is no longer manufactured.
     
  11. voceumana

    voceumana Member

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    Photo Techniques evaluated the new emulsions with several developers and suggested that you first try them with NO CHANGE to your development times.

    They did development tests to try to match the same contrast index as with the old films to come to this conculsion.

    Charlie
     
  12. David Brown

    David Brown Subscriber

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    It's the old stuff

    Thanks to all who tried to help. I was able to make a positive ID on the film.

    Cheers!

    David
     
  13. Donald Miller

    Donald Miller Member

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    Lee,

    That is fairly close to my densitometric tests of old TriX with HC110 (B). The times I have is six minutes 15 seconds for N development at 70degrees F.
    This provided a Zone VIII density of 1.25 above FB plus fog.

    This will not be enough density for anything other then enlarging, however. Even Azo Grade three will accomodate a density range (high density minus low density) of 1.35. That would equate to a Zone VIII density of 1.45-1.50 above film base plus fog using the typical Zone System method of expression.