Oriental Seagull, is it Ilford?

Discussion in 'Product Availability' started by Bruce Osgood, Jun 21, 2005.

  1. Bruce Osgood

    Bruce Osgood Membership Council Council

    Messages:
    2,611
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2002
    Location:
    Brooklyn, N.Y.
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I recently purchased a box of Oriental Seagull VC-FB II, gloss. Tim Rudman on the Pure Silver list 'suggests', based on conversations with a 'leading' retailer in the UK that it is being made by Ilford and re-branded as O.S. Does anybody know or can add to the rumor?

    Secondly, what is the II in VC-FB II? That seems new to me and the O.S. web site makes no mention of it.
     
  2. David A. Goldfarb

    David A. Goldfarb Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    17,940
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Honolulu, Ha
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    I don't know about Seagull VC, but the graded certainly isn't. I tested them against each other about a year and a half ago or so, and Galerie was on a much brighter base, while Seagull graded seemed to have better blacks.
     
  3. Will S

    Will S Member

    Messages:
    717
    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2004
    Location:
    Madison, Wis
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    I have noticed that my times for Ilford Multigrade IV and Oriental Seagull VCCB (I think that is the type) are exactly the same. I ran out of Ilford one night and switched to the OS. I was very surprised that they had the exact same ISO.

    I couldn't tell them apart after drying.

    That doesn't necessarily mean they are the same though....

    Best,

    Will
     
  4. Nick Zentena

    Nick Zentena Member

    Messages:
    4,679
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Location:
    Italia
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    What he said was that it was made by Ilford. At least that's what I remember him saying. That doesn't mean it IS Ilford. Just that it's made on Ilford machines in an Ilford plant.
     
  5. clay

    clay Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,125
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Location:
    Asheville, N
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    MG IV and Oriental VCFB sure don't tone the same. I find MG IV to be very difficult to tone, while the oriental is a piece of cake.
     
  6. Bruce Osgood

    Bruce Osgood Membership Council Council

    Messages:
    2,611
    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2002
    Location:
    Brooklyn, N.Y.
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Yes, you are quite right. My term re-branded gives a different connotation than I had meant. Thank you..
     
  7. ann

    ann Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,920
    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2002
    Shooter:
    35mm
    they don't look the same in our lab.

    And the new box sitting on the table, indicates it was made in Japan.
     
  8. Lee Shively

    Lee Shively Member

    Messages:
    1,325
    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2004
    Location:
    Louisiana, U
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The warm toned variable contrast papers look nothing alike.
     
  9. benjiboy

    benjiboy Subscriber

    Messages:
    8,531
    Joined:
    Apr 18, 2005
    Location:
    U.K.
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Oriental Seagull

    It is made in Japan by Oriental Photo Industries.
     
  10. Nathan Smith

    Nathan Smith Member

    Messages:
    479
    Joined:
    Mar 28, 2005
    Location:
    Austin, TX
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    ... or that it is the same stuff, made elsewhere, that Ilford is buying and repackaging as their own. I have no idea whether that's true, just another possibility.

    Nathan
     
  11. Timothy

    Timothy Member

    Messages:
    199
    Joined:
    Dec 25, 2003
    Location:
    Toronto
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    Comparing papers

    I have never used Oriental Seagull and can make no comment on the comparison as such. But just for future reference, a technique that I learned from John Sexton at a recent workshop for comparing papers is to compare the max black. It is surprisingly effective. John took half sheets of various papers and grossly over-exposed them all (room lights on, REALLY over-exposed) then processed them all normally and placed them all under a normal light for evaluating. When placed side by side, it is really surprising how much difference there is from one paper to another in the depth and shade of black. So even when the texture and apparent exposure and development times seem to be the same, this is one test that will always show a difference if one exists.
    Also, as mentioned above, the way the paper tones is another dead giveaway.

    Tim R
     
  12. laytonimages

    laytonimages Member

    Messages:
    1
    Joined:
    Apr 26, 2004
    Seagull update

    Sorry, I'm a little late to this thread, but I thought you might be interested in the following:

    I just returned from Tokyo where I bought some Oriental Seagull. First I tried at Bic Camera and was told that the company was no longer producing the paper. Bic had a few packages of 20x24 on the shelf, but that's all.

    Next I went to Yodobashi Camera and bought their last box of 11x14 VC FB (they didn't have any graded paper, had a fair amount of VC RC, though). The paper I bought had a new designation, "II", on it. The salesman there told me that the company was still in business but his stock was low.

    So, I wouldn't be surprised if Ilford is now producing Seagull, especially if Tim Rudman (who is well-connected) says so.

    I was never able to get New Seagull VC FB to lith print and had only moderate success with graded FB. I'll give the new New II a try and see how it goes.

    You might try Fomabrom a try and see what you think. It's a little colder than Fomatone.