Oriental Warmtone-yellowish/brownish edges

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by yardkat, Nov 10, 2007.

  1. yardkat

    yardkat Member

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    Dear all,
    I recently tried Oriental VC papers for the first time, and really liked them, particularly the warmtone. I know the paper base is kind of yellow, but I liked how the image itself didn't have a yellow tinge to it, it looked kind of neutral, actually, and took toners nicely. (At least in my *very* unscientific experiment.) However, the edges of the paper have a yellow to almost brown stain on them that seemed to go away when I toned them, in fact the lab tech who was working in the darkroom where I print asked me if I was using an old paper. During the same printing session I also used the regular non-warm tone Oriental, and that paper did not have the stainy looking edges. I'll try later to see if I can scan a print that might show this, but it's just a slight yellowing on the edges of the paper. The border around the image is yellow, the color of the paper base, and then darkens as it goes to the edge of the paper. Is this normal, or is there something I did wrong? I think I'd like to start using this paper more regularly, so if anyone has any hints about it, please let me know.
    Thanks very much!
    Julie
     
  2. Jerrycam

    Jerrycam Member

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    I had the same problem with Oriental VC regular tone. The edges were browned and looked old. I sent the paper back for a refund and haven't used Oriental since.
     
  3. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

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    Even it it's fixable you'd have to like the paper a lot to be bothered. At least I would. It might be the batch you have but if not, it would be another vote for Ilford or Kentmere for me.

    pentaxuser
     
  4. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    If it is RC paper, I suspect edge creep of chemistry. Brown edges is common with poorly made RC. This is particularly evident with color, but can be seen with B&W.

    Basically, the developer and hypo bleed in the paper edges, and then don't wash properly. This leaves behind a yellow-brown stain.

    If it is FB, IDK offhand what it might be.

    PE
     
  5. yardkat

    yardkat Member

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    Yes, it was fiber paper.
    I was trying some different papers, and I really did like the Oriental. I'll try another box before I make a firm decision, I guess. I tried Kentmere, and I wanted to really like it, but it fogged in the darkroom that I use. (or else it was fogged when I got it, but I did a safelight test with coins, and it definitely fogged.) Oriental and Ilford did not. The problem with Ilford is that I just really don't like the green color of the warmtone, and I don't want to have to tone just to get rid of the green. Nor do I really want to tone just to get rid of a yellow edge. Oh well.
     
  6. kaputnik

    kaputnik Member

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    I had the same problem with Oriental VC. I got the stains out with ferricyanide bleach. It took only a brief application with a brush to the stained areas.
    It added a few minutes to the process, no big deal.
     
  7. yardkat

    yardkat Member

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    Interesting. Thanks for the heads up.
    I've noticed that the paper either on the top or bottom of the bag tends to stain more than the sheets from the center of the bag. Weird. The other thing I've been trying is a longer fix, and if I'm alone in the darkroom and have the space I'll use two fix baths. Essentially I had decided that when I'm out of this paper (I had gotten some for Christmas) that I probably won't use it again, but if the extra fixing and then perhaps a quick bleaching work maybe I'd keep trying. Thanks!
    J
     
  8. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Sheets at the top or bottom are looser in the package and are affected by aerial oxidation and other crud faster than the paper sandwiched tightly in the center of the pack.

    The paper probably has bad keeping in and of itself. If Ferri gets rid of it, then it is fog.

    PE
     
  9. Richjsn1

    Richjsn1 Member

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    I have the same results. The white is cream at best. I used Formula 130 as a developer. I also noticed that if you use selinum it will increase the brown to almost a redish tone. The paper has its place. The warmtone is nice but the blacks dont pop out like I expected. What developer did you use?
     
  10. yardkat

    yardkat Member

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    Thank you, PE, fascinating as always!

    I print in a classroom darkroom, so I just used the provided chemistry, and I think the developer is Polymax. I didn't notice the blacks not popping, I was all right with the tonal range on both the warm tone and regular, my biggest problem is this staining. I didn't get too reddish with the selenium on the WT, but the sepia can get orangey sick looking, I found. I got no discernible color change on the regular tone VC with selenium. After I finish up this box, it's probably back to Ilford for me.
     
  11. dpurdy

    dpurdy Member

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    I got a box of 11x14 Oriental WT from B&H last year that had the staining on the borders but it didn't seem to go into the image and I kind of liked the warmth. I wasn't too worried about it as I have seen it before with Ilford wt FB as well. I thought maybe the Oriental was old or had sat through a hot warehouse in shipping. I liked the paper and ordered quite a lot of it from Freestyle and have never seen the staining again. I wouldn't be too quick to discard it as it is good paper. I thought there was a chance that the staining was some sort of contamination or from using dead stop bath. But I guess it was just an old box of paper.
     
  12. yardkat

    yardkat Member

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    Well, I do like the warm tone, but the regular VC doesn't exite me anymore than Ilford, which I can actually buy locally, so I guess I'm sort of leaning toward using Oriental WT, and dealing with the staining, and Ilford MGIV regular. The regular tone VC both behave similarly in my lab, as far as speed, contrast, and whatnot and what have yous. The Oriental might have slightly more contrast, but I'd have to go back to my unscientific test and look at it. I did have a few sheets where the staining did in fact bleed onto the image, and I usually have bigger borders than 1/4 inch.
     
  13. dpurdy

    dpurdy Member

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    I know that Freestyle has a brand new fresh batch of 11x14 Oriental WT FB in stock because when I ordered it last it was back ordered for a couple months and they just got it in and sent me mine last week or so. Maybe two weeks ago. I printed on it and it was perfect and exactly matched in speed and contrast and color to my previous paper. Also I think you will be very hard pressed to find a difference between the Oriental WT and the Ilford WT. Same color contrast and surface. That has been discussed before in a different thread.
     
  14. yardkat

    yardkat Member

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    Thanks for the heads up on Freestyle! Actually, I find the two WT papers very different. I don't see a lot of difference in the regular VC, but to me the Ilford WT has that green cast that I don't like and was trying to get away from, where the Oriental WT has more yellow. Course, perhaps I was just seeing stains. :wink: