Ortho Films?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by maxbloom, Oct 29, 2007.

  1. maxbloom

    maxbloom Member

    Messages:
    187
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I'm running out of my stocks of Kodak Contrast (Process Ortho), which I shoot at ISO 12 and DBI. I'm looking for a 4x5 replacement. ISO isn't much of an issue, since they're basically all ISO 100 or slower.

    As far as I can tell, this is what's out there:
    • ADOX ORT25
    • EFKE PL 25 ORT (Same as ADOX?)
    • Rollei Ortho 25 (Same again? These three are all FK, no?)
    • Ilford Ortho Plus (Gone from Freestyle website...)
    • Maco/FK PO 100c (I'll have to call freestyle about this one...)

    Are there others I've forgotten?

    Does anyone have experience with any of these? I was hoping to get a little input, advice, recommendations, or cautionary tales before I run out to order a bunch of different ones. If it comes to that, then I will, and test them all.

    Thanks in advance for any advice.
     
  2. Robert Hall

    Robert Hall Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,047
    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2004
    Location:
    Lehi, Utah
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    How about films more sensitive to blue, even though they may be pan films?

    Something with a higher speed such as 100ASA or higher?
     
  3. jd callow

    jd callow Moderator Staff Member Moderator

    Messages:
    8,003
    Joined:
    Jan 31, 2003
    Location:
    Milan
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Failing a good ortho film what would be a good filtration to simulate ortho's sensitivity?
     
  4. jim appleyard

    jim appleyard Member

    Messages:
    2,131
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2004
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I've used an 80B filter on the camera lens with pan film. I believe you can get bluer, but an 80B will give somewhat of an ortho look w/o too much trouble.
     
  5. maxbloom

    maxbloom Member

    Messages:
    187
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    One of the biggest reasons I like shooting ortho right now is developing by inspection, which I can't continue to do under red safelight if I simulate ortho on a panchro film. Ideally, I'm looking for a true ortho replacement.
     
  6. Vaughn

    Vaughn Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,194
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Location:
    Humboldt Co.
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    X-ray film
     
  7. Jerevan

    Jerevan Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,995
    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2004
    Location:
    Sweden/Germany
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I have only experience with the Ilford film, which as far as I can tell basically is FP4 with an orthochromatic emulsion. It works very well, is consistent, easy to handle but quite expensive.
     
  8. dmax

    dmax Member

    Messages:
    110
    Joined:
    Jan 25, 2006
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    May or may not fit your exact requirements, but Freestyle's APHS, which is primarily designed as a graphic arts film, may work. Abundant in various sizes, and is very inexpensive. Development under a red safelight is also built in. There are many posts here about how to process APHS in different developers for different applications, including in-camera shooting. My estimated EI for APHS in bright daylight is about ISO 4 or thereabouts.
     
  9. maxbloom

    maxbloom Member

    Messages:
    187
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I've though about APHS, but I'd prefer regular ortho to ortho lith for the tones. I may give it a shot anyway.
     
  10. janjohansson

    janjohansson Member

    Messages:
    29
    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2005
    Location:
    Kalix, Swede
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I have tried the efke ort25 in 35mm.
    it took me a few tries to get the contrast ok.
    With the contrast tamed this is a film i will
    use for the proper subjects.


    i have not tried the other ones mentioned.

    -j
     
  11. ricksplace

    ricksplace Member

    Messages:
    1,565
    Joined:
    Jan 22, 2006
    Location:
    Thunder Bay,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I have shot a lot of this stuff. I shoot it at iso 6 and develop it in very dilute (1:150) rodinal for about 7 minutes ( by inspection) with very minimal agitation. There is a shot on my gallery called roadside lake where I have used Freestyle's ortho lith film. I get good tonal gradation with the very dilute rodinal.
     
  12. Len Eselson

    Len Eselson Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    Aug 21, 2005
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    If you order APHS for your 4X5 DON'T order the 4X5 film. It won't fit your holder. Instead order the 3.9X4.9 size. It fits like a glove.
     
  13. nick mulder

    nick mulder Member

    Messages:
    1,204
    Joined:
    May 15, 2005
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. maxbloom

    maxbloom Member

    Messages:
    187
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    TIGHT. Any idea what the speed is for exposure in camera? Or how to decipher it from their exposure notes for copy work?

    Aww. Freestyle only has it in really large formats. I hate cutting down film...I can never get it totally straight or just the right size.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 29, 2007
  16. maxbloom

    maxbloom Member

    Messages:
    187
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Also, their fixing notes recommend a much longer fix time than Formulary recommends on the bottle of TF4 that I generally use. Which should I follow?
     
  17. sun of sand

    sun of sand Member

    Messages:
    602
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2007
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    I was going to create my own thread earlier this morning but I may get my answer here

    I bought some Kodalith
    I tried a few sheets in Dektol around 1:9 and at ASA 3-5
    It's coming along ok, I guess

    Thing is
    The negative comes out Brown&White as opposed to Black&White
    Why?
     
  18. Michel Hardy-Vallée

    Michel Hardy-Vallée Membership Council Council

    Messages:
    4,351
    Joined:
    Apr 2, 2005
    Location:
    Montréal (QC
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I've used the Adox and the Maco Ortho films in 35mm, and in Rodinal 1+100, 11' for an exposure index of 25 was pretty good. I think they are the same film, but from what I've read the Rollei ortho is a different one.

    At any rate, the advantages of true ortho films over pan+filter is that you get the extra-fine grain of ortho (always finer than Pan of the same speed) and the ability to develop under red safelight.
     
  19. maxbloom

    maxbloom Member

    Messages:
    187
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Dektol is an interesting choice. Most people (myself included) develop the stuff by inspection either in really dilute HC-110 or Rodinal.

    As for the brown in the negative, are you sure you're fixing properly?
     
  20. sun of sand

    sun of sand Member

    Messages:
    602
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2007
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    I sure thought I was fixing properly. I fix Tmax the same way and see no brown coloring. I've heard of dichroic fog but that sounds like it's more metallic
    This
    I'll just attach a negative. This one isn't my best test shot/development but it's all I have scanned and is very representative
    Anything? It still prints the same


    Also
    when using orthochromatic material what filters can one use?
    Obviously orange and red are out
    Blue would only lighten the sky even more, right?
    Green would perhaps darken the sky a little and whiten greens?
    Any way to create a cloud filter?
    I was thinking of trying multigrade filters. Maybe a 4 filter
    Does it work like that? More magenta=darkening blue sky with red component but keep the light visible due to the blue base of magenta and thus differentiate clouds
    It seem since you can use these filters on orthochromatic papers they must have some effect on film
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 6, 2007
  21. dancqu

    dancqu Member

    Messages:
    3,684
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Willamette V
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Or not encountered? From Google search for,
    Valley Litho . Check out the process films
    within the offset printing section. Dan
     
  22. sun of sand

    sun of sand Member

    Messages:
    602
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2007
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    ya know what
    I don't think I've bothered with HCA or washing them for any length of time and since Kodalith is a bit more mauve -or whatever color-
    maybe that "dye" just isn't washing out

    I have to develop a couple kodaliths from yesterday right now so I'll see
     
  23. Vaughn

    Vaughn Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,194
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Location:
    Humboldt Co.
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    I have noticed that litho film can be brownish if under-developed.

    Vaughn
     
  24. maxbloom

    maxbloom Member

    Messages:
    187
    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2006
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks Dan, but I'm looking for plain old ortho, not ortho lith.
     
  25. sun of sand

    sun of sand Member

    Messages:
    602
    Joined:
    Feb 8, 2007
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    Really, Vaughn? I will remember that.


    I just did my two Kodas from yesterday and fixed them for a longer period of time
    about 3.5 and 5 minutes in rapid fixer
    3.5 almost got rid of the brown ..kind of a light sepia instead of coffee/tea
    5 minutes completely gone. Black&White!

    Since lith film is so thin is a hardening fixer better to use? I have bottles of that waiting for a purpose in life
     
  26. Vaughn

    Vaughn Subscriber

    Messages:
    5,194
    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2006
    Location:
    Humboldt Co.
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Well, that is the result when our students yank it out of the developer early because they see the highlights getting dense enough to use as radiation shields!:tongue:

    vaughn