Overdeveloped negatives, ferricyanide bleach + fix?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by jm94, Aug 16, 2012.

  1. jm94

    jm94 Member

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    After a day out shooting photos on a 10 mile walk I proceeded to develop the roll, Kodak TMAX 100 but the phone rang and my brain went do dally and developed for 8 minutes instead of 6.5 im D76 stock. The negs looked very dense then when I went to print them the whites on the print were completely white (I.e no veins in the leaves, foliage completely white with no detail, the highlights completely blown. There is one of a Beatle, the beatle was fine. It the foliage it was on was all white with no detail and washed out. Would it be safe to use ferricyanide bleach plus fix to reduce the density of the negative without risking damage? The delta 100 roll that was shot under the same conditions and TTL meter settings I had developed fine. Glasses hung on a barbed wire fence were fine, but the barbed wire was totally white on the print.

    Hope I can salvage these due to the sheer effort we went to get them! Me and my house mate were out shooting photos and I really want to recover these! I haven't messed up film developing in this way before!


    Also to keep it up in one topic, how well would TMAX/ delta 100 respond n rodinal 1 + 50? I do plan to give that a try if it's worth a shot!
     
  2. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

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    I wouldn't do anything to the negs until I try to print or scan them. Sometimes you'll be surprised how over developed negs look. Then think of the possibility of bleaching it.
     
  3. phelger

    phelger Subscriber

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    unless you are very experienced with the bleaching process, before trying a bleach I would definitely print with a soft filter grade first to see if that wouldn't produce the result you want.
    Peter
     
  4. jm94

    jm94 Member

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    I have tried printing them at grade 2 which produced that result, would grade 1 or lower be worth a shot?
     
  5. tkamiya

    tkamiya Member

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    Try 00 (that's what it's there for...) if you must but I wouldn't bleach that....

    It's only 23% too much development. It should be recoverable....
     
  6. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

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    If you're itching to bleach, I would try a very dilute bleach on an out take neg on the same roll. Take good notes.
     
  7. pgomena

    pgomena Member

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    Bleaching dense negatives is fraught with peril. It's very difficult to do it evenly, and you will lose shadow detail. Best to try to print them or (gasp) scan them.

    Peter Gomena
     
  8. jm94

    jm94 Member

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    Seeing as I only scan finished prints I will try to print at grade 00 and then get back with my results. I did think bleaching would be complicated hence asking and if it went for the least dense areas first that would mess up the shadows. Will get back with my results.

    Thanks for the suggestions!
     
  9. voceumana

    voceumana Member

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    If you have important images that can't be replaced, then shoot another roll for test, and over develop the same way. Cut that roll into several sections. Test with those sections to nail down the process.

    Various reducers are available for salvaging dense negatives. Photographer's Formulary offers several types.

    Charlie Strack
     
  10. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

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    I remember I worked for a photographer that shot some chromes of an interior where the color balance was off. There was a lab in LA that would dye his 4x5 transparencies magenta to compensate for the green florescent lights. They did it in steps of course.
     
  11. jeffreyg

    jeffreyg Subscriber

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    I agree with the holding off on bleaching and as mentioned at 23% more development you should have negatives that can be used. I think that if the highlights are so blocked it was more of an exposure issue. Leaves that are often rather shiny are highly reflective and although you saw them as being green they can easily come out over exposed. Also are you sure you had the correct and/or ISO set on the meter for both rolls?

    http://www.jeffreyglasser.com/
     
  12. jm94

    jm94 Member

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    they were shot at ISO 100, so the box speed of both films. I only have like 10 sheets of vc paper left until Saturday when I get some more, the rest is graded, so I will make a test print tonight at grades 00 and 0 to see what happens.
     
  13. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    i have some 4x5 film that is so dense you can't see through it.
    i just contact print the heck out of it, which means regular rc paper,
    and a 300watt bulb exposed for anywhere between 8 seconds and 2mins depending on the film
    (tmx has a uv layer that adds 10x the time ) ...
    if you have 35mm film this might be a bit difficult but it might be fun to try.
    35mm tiny prints can look really nice in a 8x10 frame :smile:

    ( a conversation piece at least ! )
     
  14. Chris Lange

    Chris Lange Member

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    I have some negatives on Delta 3200 that I thought was Plus-X when it was in the camera. It's almost too dense to see the image detail, but printed down, they look fabulous.

    Lots of photographers enjoy using extremely meaty negatives in the dark room.

    I personally find "normally" exposed and developed too thin for my printing technique and aesthetic preferences. I overexpose -drastically- when I have the light to do so.
     
  15. johnielvis

    johnielvis Member

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    geeze it's simple--just use a very dilute bleach solution---or do one with bromide so that if you go to far you can re-develop it and get it back

    but you can do it little by little--say a 2g/litre bleach solution mixed with hypo 50/50...you may have to soak it in that a couple of times before you start to see anything dramatic but I've bleached for 5 or 10' sometimes without seeing anything happening...but do the bleach...then wash and dry (after final fix) to see what it looks like dry---very important--oh..and use hypo with the bleach..pure hypo crystals from the swimming pool store
     
  16. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    SNIP
    i wish i could find a swimming pool store near me that sold pure hypo,
    no one sells it near me at all, well, i lie , one place about 45mins away
    and i have to buy 100lbs of it ...
     
  17. Andrew O'Neill

    Andrew O'Neill Subscriber

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    Are you exposing for the high lights when making the print? Are you using a VC paper? Have you ever tried flashing the paper?
     
  18. jm94

    jm94 Member

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    I haven't tried flashing the paper, I did print at grade 0 and 1 and that resulted in a few (the most crucial shots) being reasonably printed. I too like reasonably dense negatives but these were too dense, doesn't flashing paper make it hypersensitive?

    Jacob
     
  19. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

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    I don't think so. It makes some highlights that don't have texture on the print have texture. Correct me if I'm wrong.
     
  20. bdial

    bdial Subscriber

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    You are correct.
    This is also the sort of negative that doing split grade printing can help with. In a nutshell, you make an exposure at grade 00 to get the highlights then a second exposure at grade 5 to bring the blacks to where you'd like them to be.
     
  21. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

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    I apologize if this has been addressed already, but here goes:

    1. If your negative is simply overdeveloped, then your contrast will be too high. If you bleach such a negative, the very first thing that will be bleached out are your shadows. They will basically just disappear, while your highlights remain still pretty dense. Now you will have a negative that is still of very high contrast, but with less shadow detail than you had before.

    2. If your negative is overexposed, on the other hand, and the entire tone scale of the recorded scene is slid up the tone curve of your negative, then you can bleach with good results to reduce the density of the negative in general, without losing shadow detail; shadows will just slide back down the curve to where they normally live.
     
  22. Mainecoonmaniac

    Mainecoonmaniac Subscriber

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    Hi Jacob. Some negs at first glance seems like an ugly duckling that seems unprintable. You'd be surprised on how robust BW negs are. The neg might have a beautiful character that you didn't expect. Keep an open mind. Also, If you're really stuck on what the image should look like, you'll have to do some work to extract the print you want. I've made a lot of mistakes processing film and struggling with a bad neg makes me a better printer and those mistakes I'll try not to repeat. Please post your final print. I'm sure APUGers are more than happy to give their input. Mine is only worth 2¢ :wink:
     
  23. Roger Hicks

    Roger Hicks Member

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    Seconded.

    Cheers,

    R.
     
  24. jm94

    jm94 Member

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    I will give split grade printing a shot, will post an image of the result once it is done! I do need to upload some of my images to my profile, actually. It is getting there! :smile: I am glad I asked before bleaching, i was thinking what some people on here have said about the shadow detail being bleached and that doing something to a negative one only has one go.

    Jacob