Palladium solarizing

Discussion in 'Alternative Processes' started by Mateo, Jun 22, 2004.

  1. Mateo

    Mateo Subscriber

    Messages:
    500
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Hollister, C
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Can too high temperature of the Potassium Oxalate developer cause solarization. I just got a new heater unit for the developer and used it hotter than normal (normal would be +/- 100deg F). I really like the warm color but could do without the solarizing rebate area.

    Just to make sure there are no obvious red flag issues, this is what I'm using:
    Cranes Platinotype
    18 drops FO #1
    18 drops Pd
    2 drops Na2
    Brush coating

    This is a negative that I have printed a bunch and haven't had troubles with before. I could do the trial and error to make sure that the dev temp is the issue but maybe someone could learn me a little.
     
  2. Jorge

    Jorge Inactive

    Messages:
    4,532
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2002
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    This is for what size Mateo? I see solarizing when I use only one coat, as I use only 8 drops FO, 7 drops pd and 2 pt. This coat is too thin and I usually get solarized prints. When I double coat it goes away. I suggest you try double coating. I have heard some people divide the drop number and add water instead, but I have not tried it. In my experience developer temperature does not produce solarization..I have used it really, really hot..almost boiling and did not have this problem, what I did notcie is that when it is too hot, you get an awful veil on the print once it dries down.

    Good luck....
     
  3. Mateo

    Mateo Subscriber

    Messages:
    500
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Hollister, C
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Don Jorge,

    This is for 8x10. Are you using 17 total drops with a brush? In his book Arentz says 45-60 drops for 8x10 but I wouldn't know what to do with the puddles.

    I wasn't thinking well. There was another new variable-I just started to print in batches of 5 and they were sitting longer before I put the blow dryer to them. I just tried again and blow dried it as soon as it looked flat and no more solarizing. I should have guessed it had something to do with the moisture because the solarized prints were printing out too much.
     
  4. Jorge

    Jorge Inactive

    Messages:
    4,532
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2002
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Yes Mateo, with the Richeson 9010 brush, you save a lot of solution, but as I said, you can over do it and get too thin a coat.
    The Arentz book gives these amounts for Hake brushes, they absorb way too much solution. I dont know if he will inlcude the "magic brush" in his new edition.
    Trust me on this one, if you can get one! Clay turned me onto this brush and it is one of the best things he could have done for me.
     
  5. Mateo

    Mateo Subscriber

    Messages:
    500
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Hollister, C
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Thanks Jorge

    Cheap Joe is now mailing one 2" brush to cheap me.
     
  6. Jeremy

    Jeremy Member

    Messages:
    2,767
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Location:
    Denton, TX
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Wow, Jorge, I'm impressed: you're using half the drops I am for coating an 8x10! Then again I'm also doing only one coat. I may try halving my drops and doing two coats to see if that makes a difference.
     
  7. Jorge

    Jorge Inactive

    Messages:
    4,532
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2002
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    LOL..are you saying you are impressed with how cheap I am?...:smile:

    If you are using the Richeson brush, I found that was too much solution, at least for me. I had to brush too long to let all the solution soak. So I went with half that and it has worked for me. I dont know if it will work in where you are, dont know how humid it is, but I found out 2 coats dried faster than one heavy coat.

    OTOH if Clay showed you one coat, and is working for you, stick with it until you get really good. As you might be learning you have to do things consistently to get the same result, otherwise it all goes to crap. In the end you end up using the same amount, stick with what works and then experiment when you have a consistent method.

    When I coat, I do it on one foot and one hand on top of my head, I did it like that the first time so I figure oughta keep on doing it like that just in case..:smile:
     
  8. bmac

    bmac Member

    Messages:
    2,156
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    Is this the brush you are talking about Jorge? What size is best? Eagerly awaiting Amazon's delivery of Dick's book.

    Brian
     
  9. Jeremy

    Jeremy Member

    Messages:
    2,767
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Location:
    Denton, TX
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I'm thinking that doing two light coats instead of one heavier coat might even out my crappy brushing :smile:
     
  10. Jorge

    Jorge Inactive

    Messages:
    4,532
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2002
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Yes Brian, I bought the 4 inch one because it is best for my 8x10 and 12x20, since you got your new toy I guess you will be using 8x10, and I would recommend the 4 inch one. If you plan to do smaller then the 2 inch is best for 4x5 and 5x7.

    Jeremy, in my experience evident brush strokes are a sign of low humidity, when I have low humidity even with two coats I get crappy brush strokes. I ruined 2 12x20s like this. If you are seeing this too often then perhaps running the paper a little over steam will help you. I hope Joe or Clay chime in, I am not really that expereinced, I am lucky that I found a way that works for me and I stick to it.
     
  11. bmac

    bmac Member

    Messages:
    2,156
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
    I'd eventually love to do 8x10 pt/pd prints, but I think I'm going to start with 4x5 while I am honing my craft :smile:
     
  12. Ray Bidegain

    Ray Bidegain Member

    Messages:
    90
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Location:
    Portland, Or
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Jorge:

    I guess I would like to hear more details about this brush you are talking about. I have been using Hake brushes.

    Ray Bidegain
     
  13. bmac

    bmac Member

    Messages:
    2,156
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Location:
    San Jose, CA
  14. Jorge

    Jorge Inactive

    Messages:
    4,532
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2002
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    It is a brush with synthetic bristles, you wet it, shake a few times and it spreads the solution on the paper without absorbing any of the solution. It is really cool, I started with Hake brushes and let me tell you, the difference is like night and day. I strongly recommend you get it. Cheap Joe seems to have the best price.

    From what I understand it is designed for watercolor painters to spread the water on their paper.
     
  15. Jeremy

    Jeremy Member

    Messages:
    2,767
    Joined:
    Oct 26, 2002
    Location:
    Denton, TX
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Cheap Joe's does have the best price and they also have a very competitive price (not sure if it's the best) on the Winsor & Newton watercolors that you can use to spot pt/pd. Buy it all at once and don't pay shipping twice! The only downside to Cheap Joe's is that the largest Richeson 9010 they carry and sell is the 2" brush.

    Jorge, I wouldn't say that my brush strokes are uneven, just unpracticed :smile:
     
  16. Joe Lipka

    Joe Lipka Member

    Messages:
    809
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2002
    Location:
    Cary, North
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    What is the age of your FO? FO#1 is my usual suspect when things go bad.

    The other thing to consider is the amount of sensitizer on the paper. Strangely enough, I have had poor results when I am using too much sensitizer. The evidence of this is that the paper has a metallic, shiny look to it. If I remember correctly, too much sensitizer "bridges" across the fibers and you get too much metal on the paper surface, thus it looks shiny. This happened to me around the edges of the image, because that is where the sensitizer was coated more.

    I humidify the paper prior to coating and again before printing. I still use a coating rod. It works for me.

    The temperature of the Potassium Oxalate developer is not an issue. I normally use it between 95 and 100 degrees F.

    Learning hand coating does take practice. As you go along, you must take notes on what you have done. It's a science experiment for sure. So, you have to take notes to know what you have done and figure out what variables can be experimented with. Since it is your money being spent on this, you see how important it is to make sure that you develop consistent craft and procedures.

    Keep at it, you will find out how to handle this process.
     
  17. lallan

    lallan Member

    Messages:
    25
    Joined:
    Oct 3, 2003
    I keep promising myself to learn the 'chemistry' behind pt/pd printing, but until then, I have always been under the assumption that the total drop count of the salts should equal the total for the ferric. I have been single coating, 15 fo, 15 pd or 15 fo 14 pd 1 pt. I will try increasing the pt, but Jorge, is there a point of diminishing returns? What is the advantage of more salt than ferric? Doesn't some of the metal salts not reduce in this case? Thanks. ...lyle
     
  18. Jorge

    Jorge Inactive

    Messages:
    4,532
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2002
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Lallan, in my case it is not science, it is more like rumors. I had read in the B&S web site that too much sensitizer caused mottling and it was a problem I was having, so I tried reducing the amount of sensitize and it worked for me.

    Joe above has a good explanation for not using too much sensitizer, I do see that metallic "sheen" sometimes when the print is dry. I did not know it was because of too much FO, learn something new everyday!

    In any case, dont be afraid to take off 2 or 3 drops of FO, more than that I would not try. Besides, FO is cheap compared to pt or pd.....so back off only to improve your print, not to save on it.

    Hope this helps.
     
  19. Joe Lipka

    Joe Lipka Member

    Messages:
    809
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2002
    Location:
    Cary, North
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    I may have lead some folks astray here. When I talked of too much sensitizer, I meant the entire combined solution of FO#1, NA2 and Pt/Pd. If there are too many metallic salts in the total sensitizer volume you may get the shiny metallic finish where there is too much solution put on the paper.

    Hope that clears things up.
     
  20. Ray Bidegain

    Ray Bidegain Member

    Messages:
    90
    Joined:
    Oct 22, 2003
    Location:
    Portland, Or
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    I have one more question about the magic brush, how long does it take to be ready to use again. My main complaint about the hake has been waiting till i'ts dry to use again.

    Ray
     
  21. Jorge

    Jorge Inactive

    Messages:
    4,532
    Joined:
    Sep 6, 2002
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    That is one of the best things about this brush, rinse it, use it again! no need to wait, no need to have an army of hake brushes, no need to spend 3 minutes rinsing the hake brushes...with the magic brush a 10 sec rinse and you are ready to go again.
     
  22. roy

    roy Member

    Messages:
    1,308
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    West Sussex
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
     
  23. Joe Lipka

    Joe Lipka Member

    Messages:
    809
    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2002
    Location:
    Cary, North
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    My personal guideline for the 27% #1 solution is no more than one month. Since I normally mix my own solution 10 ml at a time, I don't have much trouble getting through each batch I make up. Louis Nadeau in his Theory and Practice of Platinum Printing says storage up to six months is OK. Definitely, your mileage will vary here. FO is so much less expensive than the metal salts that erring on the side of short storage isn't a great sin.