Pan F and Rodi. This sound like a plan?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Flotsam, Feb 20, 2005.

  1. Flotsam

    Flotsam Member

    Messages:
    3,221
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Location:
    S.E. New Yor
    I really like Pan F but I have always had trouble getting decent shadows with good tonal seperation.
    I've been thinking of trying out Rodinal at 1:100 with gentle agitation once a minute. I'm hoping that the high dilution long rests will have a compensating effect, allowing the thin areas to build while losing activity in the denser areas.

    Anybody done this or have any comments?
     
  2. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

    Messages:
    3,879
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2004
    Location:
    Southern Cal
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hi Neal,

    I've done both Pan F and Pan F Plus in Rodinal 1:100 and 1:50 with good results. My rollfilm tank agitation scheme is 5 gentle torus inversions per minute with both dilutions. I personally prefer the 1:50 dilution (the maximum density is a little higher).

    Be sure to expose for the shadows!
     
  3. Dr.Kollig

    Dr.Kollig Member

    Messages:
    107
    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2004
    Location:
    Rhine valley
    Shooter:
    35mm RF
    I looked up an info sheet of Agfa (Australia?) and it lists Pan F+, 20 min 1:100, 25 ASA, gamma 0.6. 1:50 should give you 50 ASA, gamma 0.65 at 11 mins.

    What I did was HP5+ 40 mins 1:100 at 400 ASA and 60 mins at 800 ASA, because contrast would not go up to more than 0.6-0.65, while shadows would gain some density.

    How about considering XR-1, a low contrast speed gaining developer? (www.unblinkingeye.com for formula from patent)

    Wolfram
     
  4. Ronald Moravec

    Ronald Moravec Member

    Messages:
    1,272
    Joined:
    Jan 17, 2005
    Location:
    Downers Grov
    Nice combination. Don`t worry about gentle agitation. Infact you need to replace the used developer with fresh. It`s the rest time that is important.

    Some find the slower films contrasty, and there doesn`t seem much you can do about it.
     
  5. photomc

    photomc Member

    Messages:
    3,575
    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2003
    Location:
    Texas
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hi Neal, have not tried it with PanF but FP4+ , EI 64 in Rodinal 1+100 gives me nice results using stand development. I usually go for 1 min of agitation then let the darn thing sit for 40 minutes at 70F. Seems the developer is pretty well spent by then, but it does give nice results. BTW, use 10 ml of Rodinal to 1L of water just to make get enough developer conc. in there...unless using trays then it is 14 ml to 1.4L.

    Let us know how it works out for you...and good luck.
     
  6. Flotsam

    Flotsam Member

    Messages:
    3,221
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Location:
    S.E. New Yor
    Thanks everyone for the responses. Lots of good advice and info.

    I am going to be doing 35mm. One roll in a 250ml tank, Two in 500ml. You think that 2.5 ml of concentrate will have the poop to do an averagely exposed 36 exp roll?

    I'm really trying to get better, printable tone-separation in the shadow areas. Like you can get with Tri X. I've been fooling around with some of the slower Efke films and they are quite impressive in this respect but I've got quite a bit of Pan F on hand to play with, I've goten many wonderful prints out of it over the years and I want to see if I can improve my results with it.

    I don't do densitometry but I will post my impressions and results after I try it.

    Thanks again.
     
  7. BWGirl

    BWGirl Member

    Messages:
    3,049
    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Location:
    Wisconsin, U
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hi Neal!
    I love Pan f+! I use the 35mm (haven't developed the 120 yet). Here's what I use:
    Rodinal 1:50 for 11 minutes. I use the same agitation scheme as Tom...5 gentle toroidal inversions per minute. (I also "wonk" it on the counter after each agitation & when I first pour in the soup.) :wink:
     
  8. BruceN

    BruceN Member

    Messages:
    585
    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2004
    Location:
    Wyoming
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    That's exactly how I get my best results, although I've been meaning to test the 1:200/90 minute stand development process that was discussed under another thread. Apparently it works quite well for high-contrast midday shots.

    Bruce
     
  9. david b

    david b Member

    Messages:
    4,031
    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2003
    Location:
    None of your
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Pan F+ and Rodinal 1+50 is my favorite too.
     
  10. Flotsam

    Flotsam Member

    Messages:
    3,221
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Location:
    S.E. New Yor
    I've used Pan 1:50 a few times, I'm interested see if 1:100 improves my shadows.

    What are you guys, (you're one of the guys, Jeanette :smile: ) rating your Pan F at?
     
  11. modafoto

    modafoto Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,102
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2003
    Location:
    Århus, Denma
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I can only double what has been said. I have done a lot of Pan F+ in Hot Rod 1+50 for 11 minutes...and I love it!
     
  12. titrisol

    titrisol Member

    Messages:
    1,671
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    Rotterdam
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Haven;t used PanF but from my experience with AGFA and EFKE 25 I believe that agitation should be once every 2-3 minutes with R1+100
    If you agitate every minute, your contrast will be higher than lettng it rest for a few min.

     
  13. RAP

    RAP Member

    Messages:
    476
    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2002
    Shooter:
    4x5 Format
    Pan F is a slow film with a high threshold of exposure, so in order to get good shadow detail, you need to rate it slower then what's stated. I rate Pan F at ASA 25. But I use PMK mostly for all my b&w films now. I would also try Ilford's DDX.

    Run a few tests to determine development times. Then just go take pictures.
     
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. BWGirl

    BWGirl Member

    Messages:
    3,049
    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Location:
    Wisconsin, U
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I feel the love! :wink: I use it straight out of the box...@ ISO 50.
     
  16. Thomas Bertilsson

    Thomas Bertilsson Subscriber

    Messages:
    15,254
    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2003
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I've used Pan-F+ exposed at EI25 quite a few times, and am getting good results that way. Overexposure could be what the doctor would order in your case, since it brings out the shadows a bit.
    Rodinal, especially at high dilutions usually means a little loss in film speed. In high dilutions be sure to use enough developer as well, so you don't exhaust it.
    I like the idea of stand development, but have never tried it. Please let us know how it went!

    - Thom
     
  17. dancqu

    dancqu Member

    Messages:
    3,676
    Joined:
    Sep 7, 2002
    Location:
    Willamette V
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    "... torus inversions ..." ?
     
  18. jcausey

    jcausey Member

    Messages:
    47
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2004
    Location:
    Bloomington,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I love Pan F+ in Rodinal. I haven't even tried it in other developers yet.
     
  19. BWGirl

    BWGirl Member

    Messages:
    3,049
    Joined:
    May 15, 2004
    Location:
    Wisconsin, U
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Well....I guess the way I do it is more like a twisted version of the "infinity" symbol... :wink: but since a torus is basically a donut...I guess "toroidal" is a bit off for my method. Mine's more like a double helix...must be a "Jeanette-ic" thing! haha :D :wink:
     
  20. Flotsam

    Flotsam Member

    Messages:
    3,221
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Location:
    S.E. New Yor
    Sounds like I'd sprain something. I'd better continue practicing "safe" agitation techniques.
     
  21. davet

    davet Member

    Messages:
    33
    Joined:
    Aug 30, 2004
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Even at 1:100, Rodinal isn't the best choice for good speed, though I agree that in general Rodinal/Pan F is an excellent combination. You might also consider XTOL 1:3 or (my favorite) Ilfosol S 1:14, both at EI 50. Ilfosol is strange, not so good with fast films, quite good with FP4+, brilliant with Pan F+. And Pan F+ is capable of such lovely lush shadow detail ...
     
  22. Flotsam

    Flotsam Member

    Messages:
    3,221
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Location:
    S.E. New Yor
    My thinking is that a highly diluted devoper will tend to exhaust in the denser areas during the rests while the shadows continue to develop, lowering contrast in a way that just cutting back on the overall developing time wouldn't accomplish. I assume that dropping the speed of the film will also be neccessary.
     
  23. titrisol

    titrisol Member

    Messages:
    1,671
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    Rotterdam
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I prefer to achieve what Flotsam says by making agitation less frequent.
    By diluting the developer you get similar results in longer times (IMHO). How little developer is necessary to develop a roll of film it's an open-ended question to which I had never received a satisfactory answer.
     
  24. Flotsam

    Flotsam Member

    Messages:
    3,221
    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2002
    Location:
    S.E. New Yor
    I am certainthat I have seen a "minimum amount of Rodinal concentrate per roll" somewhere but I have forgotten where and what it was
     
  25. modafoto

    modafoto Subscriber

    Messages:
    2,102
    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2003
    Location:
    Århus, Denma
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I have, too. Can remember it either...I don't believe in it either. I think it is something Agfa said to have us use more Rodinal.
    Of course it can be said that if you use a too little amount of Rodinal for a roll that the result will be of a poorer quality and 1+50 is the highest dilution recommended, but that is up to the photographer.
    If you do 1+300 stand dev with Rodinal and like it...then 1+300 is ok.

    Morten
     
  26. titrisol

    titrisol Member

    Messages:
    1,671
    Joined:
    Aug 2, 2004
    Location:
    Rotterdam
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I have used 1+200 rodinal a few times, when I guessstmated exposures. 2 hours in standing development does the trick. However I have always used 2ml rodinal +400 water (35mm) or 3ml r+600 water (120)

    I understand that the maximum gamma attainable will not be 0.65 or so but it doesn;t bug me, as I get pefectly printable negatives.