Paper for Kallitype or Pd/Pt print

Discussion in 'Alternative Processes' started by Mark Fisher, Jan 2, 2012.

  1. Mark Fisher

    Mark Fisher Subscriber

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    I decided to try kallitypes again. I am having a lot of problems with getting a decent paper to work for me. I tried some Weston Diploma paper from B&S.....great Dmax, bad staining or fog in the highlights. I then tried Clearprint Vellum. Easily cleared, poor dmax. I am using sodium citrate developer, clearing bath 1 is 1% citric acid, clearing bath 2 is permawash. I then tone in Clerc's gold and fix in 5% sodium thiocynate. This combination worked well for me a few years ago with the old Arches Platine paper. I just mixed the sensitizer. The 10% silver nitrate is a year or two old, but looks fine (stored in the dark, in dark glass, in the basement). I get the distinct feeling that my problem is paper and/or my clearing method. Any advice?
     
  2. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

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    Mark, not an answer to your actual question but wanted to mention anyway: I use Weston Diploma for Vandykes, (+ Clerc's gold-thiourea toning) and for me it works great! (Just a note if you ever decide to switch to Vandyke...) I add 1-2 drops of 40% citric acid into the coating solution (not to the stock sensitizer!), makes it work better; great dmax and tonality + zero fogging...

    Regards,
    Loris.
     
  3. doughowk

    doughowk Subscriber

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    My best prints with Kallitype, and more recently Palladium, have been on Bergger COT320. It seems to give better detail as well as higher DMax (judged visually).
     
  4. Mark Fisher

    Mark Fisher Subscriber

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    Thanks to both. Loris, I am using an unmentionable method so I don't see any reason not to use Vandyke especially since I am toning afterward. In fact I mixed up some solution last night hoping it would be easier to clear and/or be more tolerant of paper. I'll include the citric acid as mentioned.
     
  5. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

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    Mark, you may also try Masa paper; works great with every iron / iron-silver processes I know. (Even Argyrotype!) Beware: It's a thin paper (something around 90 g/sqm), therefore, if you print large (> 11x14") you will have to be careful when handling; may tear and/or crease easily. (Don't be intimidated; it's much stronger than it sounds...) And, as a last note: Try Vandyke w/o citric acid first, use it only if it doesn't work otherwise.

    Regards,
    Loris.
     
  6. Mark Fisher

    Mark Fisher Subscriber

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    Loris...thanks for the advice. My local art supply store has Masa paper and it is ridiculously inexpensive so it is worth a try also. If I printed bigger, I'd probably get a piece of plexiglass and tape the paper to it for development. I'd crease it for sure. Also, what is the downside of adding the citric acid? I think I'll try both with and without for my calibrations just out of curiosity.
     
  7. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

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    Nothing special about citric acid; just, if it ain't broke, don't fix it :wink:

    P.S.
    See the section below, taken from Mike Ware's Argyrotype article BTW:
    "...Without exception all the iron-silver processes to date have used the most commonly available soluble salt of the metal, namely silver nitrate. But nitrate is an oxidising anion, and tends to dissolve the colloidal image silver during wet processing, *especially under acidic conditions*. To minimise this loss of image the Kallitype process employs alkaline-buffered developers of high pH, e.g. Borax. Alas, these create a new problem, because they cause hydrolysis of the excess iron(III) in the sensitizer and the deposition of insoluble ferric hydroxide in the image, which ultimately causes it to fade..." (Emphasis mine...)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 4, 2012
  8. jorj

    jorj Member

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    I'd encourage you to take a look at Ruscombe Mill's "Herschel". It quickly became my favorite for kallitypes (primarily palladium-toned). http://www.ruscombepaper.com/
     
  9. Mark Fisher

    Mark Fisher Subscriber

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    Well, time for a report. I tried to do kallitype on Platine and on Masa. Platine was mottled and difficuly to clear. I also did Weston Diploma, Platine and Masa in Vandyke. The Platine still had issues. The Masa looked great and cleared easily. The Weston also cleared easily. After gold toning, they looked much the same. I really wanted The Kallitype to work better, but it looks like VanDyke either on Masa or Weston is a winner for me. This weekend I'll finish my calibrations (I am using a process that must-not-be-named) and hopefully printing in the next week or two. I have to say, that Clerc's gold is really remarkable on these prints.

    Lastly, is it possible that my Ferric Oxalate went bad. I've had a dry jar for about 5 years and just mixed up a batch last week. That is the only other thing I could think of causing my clearing problems for Kallitype
     
  10. artonpaper

    artonpaper Subscriber

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    Regarding ferric oxalate, I've had a jar for at least that long and it works fine. I have gotten mottled Kallitypes and found using fresh developer for each session worked well. Rochelle salt gave a nice image tone, no gold toning. I can vouch for both COT 320 and Herschel paper.
     
  11. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

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    Mark, I'm glad that you made the paper(s) work. Have you used citric acid?

    P.S. IME, exposing Vandyke when it's relatively "damp" (a la Ziatype. IMPORTANT: I put 2mils polyester between the negative and paper in order to protect the negative. It also helps in masking the inherent grain you may get with the non-mentionable workflow...), you get a much colder untoned image, and slightly greater dmax. (The latter for both the plain and toned image.)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 6, 2012
  12. Mark Fisher

    Mark Fisher Subscriber

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    Thanks Loris, your advice has helped me get off center. VD is certainly a simpler process to deal for me.....and citric acid was unnecessary for me. I'll try the damp version when I do my next round.
     
  13. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

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    Mark, it's not damp in the literal sense; observe the paper after coating, and see how much time it takes the surface to become matte, then wait further by a factor of 1-2 (test!). In my conditions, it's usually 10 minutes after finishing coating.

    Regards,
    Loris.
     
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  15. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

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    Just for the records, one can mix a sodium citrate based kallitype developer buffered at pH levels 6 or 7.

    See below:

    • pH 6: 200g trisodium citrate dihydrate + 20g citric acid monohydrate
    • pH 7: 200g trisodium citrate dihydrate + 2.6g citric acid monohydrate

    (Amounts for 1000ml developer...)

    Worked it out using this site.

    Regards,
    Loris.
     
  16. CraigK

    CraigK Member

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    I've used Masa and it works great. But I now mainly use fixed-out barya paper (Ilford FB seems to work best, but most any brand of fb paper can work too). Fixed-out Baryta paper works well for Van Dyke prints. In fact, I recommend starting with VDB solutions to learn the tricks of coating baryta paper before moving on to plat/palladium on the same paper. It is much, much cheaper and a bit easier to do and, to be honest, a well done VDB print on fixed out baryta looks almost exactly the same as a pt/pd print.
     
  17. dpurdy

    dpurdy Member

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    I just picked up a few sheets of the Masa and it is very textured on one side and very slick and smooth on the other. Which side did you use?
    Dennis
     
  18. Jim Noel

    Jim Noel Member

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    Do you have an American dealer for this paper?
    Thanks,
    Jim
     
  19. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

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    Dennis, both sides work. I personally prefer the smooth side...
     
  20. jorj

    jorj Member

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    Jim, I've only ordered it directly from Ruscombe. They shipped quicker than I expected; no worse than coming from the other side of North America.
     
  21. Davec101

    Davec101 Member

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    Are you ordering your Masa paper in Europe Loris or the US? Would like to try a sample.
     
  22. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

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    Dave, I order directly from the States, I don't know any European dealer for the paper - would like to know if there's one...

    I think DickBlick (in the States) stocks it (you can buy single sheets, discounted at 10+ sheets...), I also found another retailer that sells it in 100-pack format for a little less, but I haven't used them before.

    Regards,
    Loris.
     
  23. payral

    payral Member

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  24. Loris Medici

    Loris Medici Member

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    Thanks Philippe! The price is much much better, but they're temporarily out of stock...
     
  25. Davec101

    Davec101 Member

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    Thanks Loris and Philippe, I checked Schleiper but they are out of stock, will order some when its back in. Lots of papers to try, Delivery @ 25 Euro. I see they have a Paris branch too.
     
  26. artonpaper

    artonpaper Subscriber

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    One more thing, I haven't made Kallitypes in a great long while, but I and the experience that I would get good prints, in those days using arches watercolor or cranes, and then I'd get lots of prints with mottling. Somewhere I read that at that point the developer, in my case Rochelle Salts should be tossed. Indeed, using fresh developer gave me better richer, smoother prints. Richard Sullivan's Athenatype process is said to solve a lot of the problems that are inherent in the Kallitype process. Here's a demo:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Reh35N8ziqA