Paper Processing and White Vinegar

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by nsmk82, Feb 18, 2014.

  1. nsmk82

    nsmk82 Member

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    hi everyone, did any one try to use white vinegar to stop developer action for ILFORD FB or RC papers instead of stop bath?
    Thank you
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Feb 18, 2014
  2. Daire Quinlan

    Daire Quinlan Member

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    Depending on the brand of stop bath they're basically the same thing. Probably different concentrations though. Vinegar = dilute acetic acid = Stop bath.
    I think Ilfostop is a different dilute acid. Citric acid as opposed to Acetic acid ?
     
  3. doughowk

    doughowk Subscriber

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    The White Vinegar I purchase is 5% acetic acid. One of Anchell's formulaes is 48ml of 28% acetic acid with 1 liter water. That would be 270ml of white vinegar per liter. Need to fine tune the math for proportions, but it should work.
     
  4. Xmas

    Xmas Member

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    Yes I use wine vinegar dilute about 1+5, for prints.
     
  5. nsmk82

    nsmk82 Member

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    so 2% of acetic acid in total, and for how long to stop action in FB paper?
     
  6. nsmk82

    nsmk82 Member

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    what is the final % acetic acid, and how long for FB paper?
     
  7. bdial

    bdial Subscriber

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    As I recall, the proportion I've seen recommended in here is 1 + 1.
    The timing is the same as what you'd use for any commercial acetic acid stop bath. Between 30 seconds and one minute is what I use for 8x10 and larger.
     
  8. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

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    Of course,all through the 1950s and 60s:whistling:
     
  9. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

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    sounds about right. vinegar is around 5%acid and stop bath should be around 2%:wink:
     
  10. nsmk82

    nsmk82 Member

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    I forgot to mention on the question, I'm asking to use the white vinegar for Ilford FB papers not negative, could I..?
     
  11. doughowk

    doughowk Subscriber

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    Just finished using the white vinegar on Emaks graded fiber, and whites look good. I used 270ml of white vinegar to 800ml of water, but this doesn't jibe with some of the other comments above. Oh well ;-(
    I probably still prefer citric acid because of the smell.
     
  12. Waldi

    Waldi Member

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    I use a white vinegar for stop bath all the time and works perfect (my proportion is 1-5), and what is important environmentaly friendly.
     
  13. bdial

    bdial Subscriber

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    Yes.

    Acetic acid sourced from white vinegar or from a commercial stop bath is the same either way as far as the film or paper is concerned. The only thing missing is indicator dye if you'd otherwise use an indicator stop.

    As for environmental friendliness, that's the same either way too, except possibly for the indicator dye.
    When you dump it, it's not a bad idea to neutralize it either by mixing with spent developer or some baking soda.
     
  14. Simonh82

    Simonh82 Member

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    Citric acid is cheap and less smelly than vinegar. I swapped after I found the vinegar fumes gave me a headache during long printing sessions.

    Two teaspoons in a litre of water makes a great stop. I found my citric acid on eBay but I believe brewing suppliers are also a cheap source.
     
  15. Xmas

    Xmas Member

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    We put neat vinegar on our national dish - fish and chips.
    1+5 needs to be replaced regular if you get a stain you need faster replacement
     
  16. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

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    I thought your national dish was Indian food?
     
  17. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    Pure white vinegar works fine as stop bath.

    Don't use flavoured or malt or wine vinegars.

    Last time I checked, white vinegar was expensive compared to the Kodak Indicator Stop bath I use for film. I haven't calculated the costs for Ilford Ilfostop, which I use for prints, and which I wish was available in larger bottles.
     
  18. Xmas

    Xmas Member

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    Yes to tell the truth I prefer Hindu food in a pukka Hindu run establishment, in pref to Pack or Bangladesh.

    Even our bigots eat Indian.

    But most Chinese rest will do fish and chips.

    To be absolutely correct our national dish was fish and chips and we soaked it in brown (malt) vinegar with salt.
     
  19. RalphLambrecht

    RalphLambrecht Subscriber

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    wouldn't mind a serving of that right now,accompanied by some or lots of crisp apple cider.:D.the only place you can get good cider on this side of the pond is Tilted Kilt.
     
  20. peteyj10

    peteyj10 Member

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    Not sure how quickly you burn through stop bath, but buying in bulk might be a cheaper option. They sell gallon jugs of glacial acetic acid, which is basically just a higher concentration than white vinegar. Dilute down to a working solution and you're good to go. The stuff should last you a very very long time.
     
  21. momus

    momus Member

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    Simon, thanks for the tip on where to score economically priced citric acid. I am not crazy about the smell of Kodak stop bath or vinegar, so this looks like a great alternative. I ordered the wicca pagan magick stuff???

    People are always talking about the magic of the darkroom, so maybe this will help. Or, I'll turn into a toad.
     
  22. eclarke

    eclarke Member

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    90cc of Heinz white vinegar for 1 liter of working strength stop bath.
     
  23. NedL

    NedL Subscriber

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    I've been using 50cc white vinegar for 500ml, so that's close. About 1+9. I like the fruity smell of it....
     
  24. Rhodes

    Rhodes Member

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    Buy cheap white wine. Open it and let it be (don't drink it, It's bad for health, drink good wine instead). After a few days, presto-vinegar!
     
  25. mklw1954

    mklw1954 Member

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    I've developed around 250 rolls of film and hundreds of prints and and am only getting to the end of an $8 bottle of Kodak Indicator stop concentrate. Why screw around with homemade concoctions?