Paterson Auto Print Washer Major (fibre-based papers): is really for 12x6in papers?

Discussion in 'Darkroom Equipment' started by ciccioder, Mar 7, 2011.

  1. ciccioder

    ciccioder Member

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    I recently buyed the Paterson "Major" washer for fiber-based papers: this washer is theoretically for papers until the max format of 12x16in (30,5x40,6cm)....as described on the Paterson's website and in the instructions!!!
    Yesterday, after a sesssion of print with ILFORD GALERIE the incredible happened: i try to insert the papers in the washer and while you can insert the grade 3 papers with some difficulties, with the grade 2 papers, after you use with chemicals, is really difficult or is impossible!!!!
    THE PAPERS grew, lengthened and is impossible to insert in the print basket.
    It is normal for an article sold as usable for papers up to the size of 12x16in in fact is not workable as it measures only 40,5cm on the larger size?????
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 7, 2011
  2. tleirtro

    tleirtro Subscriber

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    I was rather pissed off the first time I tried this and found I have to cut off about 1,5 cm of the paper to be sure I will be able to put it into the washer without risking damage on it. RC paper don't swell that much so you can squeeze it in if you are careful.
    I suppose this is one example of industrial designers who never actually have tried the product before sending it out on the market. If they had actually tried it in a darkroom they would of course have made it just that little bigger to make room for a wet sheet of paper.
     
  3. Blighty

    Blighty Subscriber

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    I had one of these and it only accepts prints slightly larger than 12X15". It's a bit naughty of Paterson to advertise it as suitable up to 16x12.
     
  4. ciccioder

    ciccioder Member

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    All this is absurd,
    if I had known before I would never have bought it ..... I do not spend € 200,00 complicate life instead of simplifying things!
    Paterson does not have to declare that the machine is suitable for all paper sizes up to 12x16": then this is identified as a washing machine for fiber base paper, which typically expands when moist !!!!!!!
    I'll try to go deeply into the question ....
    Basically, before exposing the paper I cut it?
    But we are crazy?
    This can give good for medium format but not the 35mm.
     
  5. Adrian Twiss

    Adrian Twiss Member

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    When these were readily available in the UK I seem to remember the technical blurb said they were for 12x15 inch sheets. That why a bought a Nova.
     
  6. ciccioder

    ciccioder Member

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    No, sorry, but the technical specifications clearly say that it is suitable for paper sizes up to 12x16"!! The washer is sell for baryta paper so, this is unacceptable.
     
  7. Blighty

    Blighty Subscriber

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    Now I come to think of it, I seem to remember the same thing. In fact, unless I'm completely ga-ga, I think I remember buying 12x15" paper years ago.
     
  8. ciccioder

    ciccioder Member

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    i post the link of Ag-Photographic:

    http://www.ag-photographic.co.uk/paterson-fiber-print-washer-12x16-776-p.asp

    and the link of Paterson:

    http://www.patersonphotographic.com...0&licenseKey=38766b5aba7056dc12ebc00c6db476bc

    and the same thing is said on the instructions!!

    i wrote an e-mail to Matthew of Ag-Photographic and one to Paterson...
     
  9. Adrian Twiss

    Adrian Twiss Member

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    No argument with you there. I was going back 10 years and decided not to buy one at the time because they only did papers up to 12x15. Obviously in the intervening period they decided to make it bigger - just not big enough it transpires.
     
  10. Matt5791

    Matt5791 Subscriber

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    Hi. We have amended the description on the site. We were unaware of the potential problems with this washer.

    I have done some research: The story from Paterson is that the design was changed. Originally, years ago, it was a 12x15" washer, but they modified the tooling to make it a 12x16" washer, however it was only possible to make it just 12x16 - without completely making new tooling (tooling for this washer would be something like £30,000, probably a lot more).

    Paterson are a decent bunch - I'm sure we can sort something out,

    Matt.
     
  11. ciccioder

    ciccioder Member

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    hello matt,
    I wish to state that I will not trigger an unnecessary controversy, I'm just very bored with not being able to wash the prints size 12x16" and I think more correctly Paterson should write in the basket can get cards "with the long side up (max) to 16"" considering the expansion of the fiber base paper in water and so smaller format cards!!
    For the rest I've seen that works well and is very comfortable considering the small size but this does not relieve the very detailed explanation from Paterson.
    If it is indicated a washer that can accommodate 12x16"size prints, the buyer understands that the Paterson has calculated the tolerances required for use with fiber base paper.
     
  12. Adrian Twiss

    Adrian Twiss Member

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    I understand what you are saying but a company of Paterson's pedigree and experience should have known that "just 12x16" may not work with FB papers. Also like many buyers if I see that the specifications say it will take 12x16 I tend to believe them. I must point out that I do not believe Paterson set out to con anyone. They probably underestimated the expansion of FB papers when wet
     
  13. Matt5791

    Matt5791 Subscriber

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    You are right, the description is not good enough. It is just a shame because many other features of the washer are superb, particulary the requirement for a very low flow rate, saving water, and the way the basket "waves" from side to side to agitate.

    Also, we now unpack and test every one of the washers to ensure it is functioning correctly in terms of the agitation etc.
     
  14. ciccioder

    ciccioder Member

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    Ok,
    ignoring the problem of the description, I must say that the washer is very handy and works well: wash 12/24 prints (depending on size) together is very comfortable!
    The most important thing is that washes with a very low water consumption: for example, the NOVA MASTER WASH ECO washer uses about 2-3 liters of water per minute, while that of Paterson less than 1 liter per minute.
    The pump system that pushes the basket seems to do his duty well, shaking continuously prints.
    We can only remember not to buy it with the idea that you can easily use the 30x40 fiber based paper: it is only a myth! You will need to cut out paper befor print.