Pd printing >> D19 in lieu of HC-110 ? - suggestions pleeze ;)

Discussion in 'Alternative Processes' started by nick mulder, Sep 13, 2007.

  1. nick mulder

    nick mulder Member

    Messages:
    1,203
    Joined:
    May 15, 2005
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Hello,

    I have a load of bergger 200asa film in 8x10 here I want to develop for palladium printing - I need a denser and more contrasty negative than I would for standard silver printing...

    The suggestion is extended development in HC-110 which increases contrast and gives a more linear curve (so I'm told) at the same time as not increasing base fog as much as other developers.

    Rather than order some into 'film is dead' :rolleyes: New Zealand I was wondering if my bulk supply here of D19 which I have been using for 16mm reversal developing could be used in its place ?

    I usually add Sodium Thiocyanate to the D19 as per the reversal instructions, (no idea what it does, something about a silver solvent) ... Would I need to do this if I used the D19 for my 8x10 negs ?

    Any recommendations on development times ?

    As per usual, thanks in advance for any help

    Nick
     
  2. RobertP

    RobertP Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,130
    Joined:
    May 11, 2006
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    Use a pyro developer. That is the best advice I can give you for developing negs for Pt/Pd. Mix your own chems and it will save you a few pennies... cause you'll need the extra money for the metal salts. There are a lot of pyro formulas out there that will give you the density range you need for pt/pd find one you like and stick with it.
     
  3. nick mulder

    nick mulder Member

    Messages:
    1,203
    Joined:
    May 15, 2005
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Yeh - I've looked into it - but once again, I'd rather use what I have here already if I can - I have heaps of D19 (and a fair amount of Pd now too)...
     
  4. RobertP

    RobertP Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,130
    Joined:
    May 11, 2006
    Shooter:
    ULarge Format
    Nick, I'm not familiar with that developer. But I think you could build enough density with any developer for printing Pd. Either use a densitometer or a step wedge to find your density range. Anywhere between 1.2 - 1.9 DR in the UV mode will print pretty well for Pt/Pd. Straight Pd. would want to be at the high end of the scale.
     
  5. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

    Messages:
    3,879
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2004
    Location:
    Southern Cal
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Kodak Developer D-19 is a Metol/Hydroquinone, high sulfite developer (96 grams of sulfite per liter) and it is not a staining developer.

    A staining developer based on Pyrocatechol or Pyrogallol will give you both the developed silver image and the additional density of the stain image (stain proportional to the amount of exposure).

    Pyrocatechol based Pyrocat is my choice, Sandy King has published the Pyrocat formulas in the open literature and they are easy to mix from scratch.
     
  6. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

    Messages:
    3,879
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2004
    Location:
    Southern Cal
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Dick Arentz is a well known Pt/Pd printer who uses Kodak Tri-X negatives developed in D-76. He obviously has no problem building sufficient density on Tri-X with his D-76 development.

    D-76 and D-19 are both Metol/Hydroquinone, high sulfite developers. the alkali in D-76 is Borax, in D-19 it is Sodium Carbonate. Thus D-19 stock has a higher pH than D-76. So...do some testing with the D-19, contact print a step wedge and something with fine detail like a resolution chart onto a test negative. With the D-19 you should be able to build sufficient density, but I would worry about possible loss of shadow detail. You may need to tinker with developer dilution and pH.
     
  7. nick mulder

    nick mulder Member

    Messages:
    1,203
    Joined:
    May 15, 2005
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format

    okidoki - yes, I am interested in pyro/staining developers as they offer interesting characteristics indeed - that being said I am strapped for cash and time currently and am trying to make do with what I have in front of me (in bulk supplies) ...

    "High Sulphite" hmmm ... like HC-110 at all ? What does a high sulphate proportion equate to in the developed neg ?

    Maybe I should have made a thread that asked:

    ...and put it directly in the B+W film/chemistry forum

    Regardless, it looks like I wont be making too much of a waste of film by just giving it a crack :smile:
     
  8. Tom Hoskinson

    Tom Hoskinson Member

    Messages:
    3,879
    Joined:
    Mar 7, 2004
    Location:
    Southern Cal
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Nick, you wrote: What does a high sulphate proportion equate to in the developed neg ? It is sodium sulfite (aka sulphite), it is alkaline. Not sodium sulphate, which is acidic. HC-110 incorporates an organic source of sulfite.

    Kodak HC-110 produces development results similar to those produced by Kodak D-76.

    Again, I'd do some testing with full strength D-19 and see if I liked the results.
     
  9. clay

    clay Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,125
    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2002
    Location:
    Asheville, N
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Okay. No one is telling you it is okay to use D-19. I am here to tell you that it is okay. I recently used it on a high-key still life with a controlled lighting situation that I knew would have a SBR of about 7. I wanted to have plenty of highlight contrast to compensate for the low contrast palladium print toe.

    So, I rated some old FP-4 at 125, placed a zone VII highlight on zone VI, and developed it for 8 minutes at 72 degrees. I got nice palladium prints (with no contrast agent) from the negatives. I knew that this will pretty much give you gamma infinity with this film with a CI of about 1.1-1.2.

    This is a very useful developer with older film, because it is very clean and will not give any excessive b+f density that the staining developers definitely will do with old film. The only knock on it is that it is very active. In other words, you probably do not want to use it on a scene with a lot of subject brightness range. That said, it works very well for normal and plus development. You could fool around with diluting for contraction development and it would probably work just fine.
     
  10. P C Headland

    P C Headland Subscriber

    Messages:
    744
    Joined:
    Mar 24, 2005
    Location:
    Wellington,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Nick

    Film may be dead up north, but it's not dead in the capital! If you do want HC110, Wellington Photographic Supplies has it in stock (or they did last weekend when I was in there).
     
  11. nick mulder

    nick mulder Member

    Messages:
    1,203
    Joined:
    May 15, 2005
    Shooter:
    8x10 Format
    Thanks Clay - thats the kind of info I was hoping for other than just testing myself...

    and to my fellow kiwi - Ak isn't too bad, but everything seems to be a special order now as 'we sold the last batch of that 2 years ago' and 'we'll have to ring Kodak especially' - usually with an associated roll of the eyes (from both parties) - I dont blame them, its no use having stuff on the shelf that isn't selling. Of late I have been purchasing cine film directly from Kodak and go into the warehouse so its a bits easier to ask them there, still though I'm going to try the D19 first ...

    What gets me though is the occasional shop assistant who (sadly not kidding here) will tell me 'film is dead' in such a fashion that I have to believe they 'know' it, at least for themselves - they then look me up and down to see if there is a possible sale of at least something in the store (maybe a lens cleaner ?) - my facial expression and body language which is swirling around either distaste, mirth and/or boredom leads them to instead just stare at me until I walk out (and order everything online from the states...)