Photographers' Formulary Fixer TF-5

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by pstake, Apr 22, 2012.

  1. pstake

    pstake Member

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    Does anyone know if this fixer can be used on films BESIDES Tmax films ... as in Tri-X, Delta 100 ...

    everything I can find about it says that it works fine for paper and on Tmax films ... but it says nothing about other films.

    This stuff is eligible for free shipping on Amazon and I'm trying to round out an order, and I need more fixer — and everything I've ever used from PF has been top notch.
     
  2. erikg

    erikg Member

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    It can be used with all common b&w films.
     
  3. pstake

    pstake Member

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    Thanks, Erik.
     
  4. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    It can be used with all B&W and color films!

    PE
     
  5. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    Does anyone know a nicer replacement for the phrase: "Straight from the horse's mouth"?

    :wink::D
     
  6. Mahler_one

    Mahler_one Member

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    Hi Ron:

    How about film that has been developed in one of the staining developers?

    Can TF5 be used with Azo papers developed in Amidol?

    Elliot
     
  7. DREW WILEY

    DREW WILEY Member

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    Yes yes yes to all the above.
     
  8. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    TF5 can be used in all instances where you have used TF4, C41 fix, plain hypo (Sodium or Ammonium) or any other neutral fix.

    So, Drew is right.

    PE
     
  9. albada

    albada Member

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    A few months ago when reading the ad in PhotoFormulary.com, I had the same impression. I remember thinking, "Oh, the ad only says Tmax, so it must not be suitable for other films." That's why I did not buy it.

    PE: I suggest changing the wording in ads to not imply that this is a specialised fixer.

    Mark Overton
     
  10. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Guys, sorry, I have no control over ads.

    Perhaps Bill and I were not clear in our communications with them.

    Alert them by sending them an e-mail.

    PE
     
  11. albada

    albada Member

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    I just checked, and PhotoFormulary has changed (and improved) their ad. The reference to T-max is gone, which is an improvement since it no longer implies that the fixer is unsuitable for other films. Their ad is longer and well done IMO. However, amazon.com says this:

    TF-5 is an extraordinary fixer for both paper and some films.

    *Some* films? What ones is it not suitable for? It looks like the ad in amazon needs to be fixed.

    Mark Overton
     
  12. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    All films.

    Another myth to be dispelled. Fixer is fixer is fixer regardless of film. Some do leave a tint due to dyes in the film, but this can be dispelled by the use of longer fix and wash times. It is not retained sliver halides or complexes. As for paper, fixer is fixer is fixer again. The thing to be aware of in all cases is that acidic fixers can etch your image with long contact with the fixer solution so don't leave film or prints in acidic fixers for extended times. (Even if you do, you probably won't see a difference unless you do a direct comparison with another print that had a shorter fix time.)

    Paper fixers are generally used at 1/2 the strength (or 2x dilution) when compared to film fixers.

    See, no big mystery. Just overcomplication by some people.

    I'm glad that the Formulary people saw what was needed and made a change. I have not looked at it.

    PE
     
  13. Mahler_one

    Mahler_one Member

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    I am sure that it is a great product Ron....however, when I accessed the PF site and noted the cost of shipping, I decided that another fixer would have to suffice. Over 30 dollars shipping for one gallon to my location. Unfortunately, the price of TF5 plus shipping has become simply too expensive for me to use; I will have to stay with Ilford Rapid Fix or plain Sodium Thiosulfate crystals .
     
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  15. Photo Engineer

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    Let the Formulary know about this. It is good information.

    PE
     
  16. Moopheus

    Moopheus Subscriber

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    I recently reordered some TF-4 (I was also confused by the description of TF-5 and decided to stick with the older product, which still seems to work fine for me). I almost didn't because of the high shipping charge. Then I went to the Digital Truth site, ordered the same products, and the shipping was $10 less. What really makes this nonsensical is that the order was drop-shipped by Formulary. So it was coming from the same place either way, it just cost less to order it from someone else.
     
  17. pstake

    pstake Member

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    What is the benefit of TF-5 over, say, Kodak Rapid Fixer? Or any other fixer? I see that stated fix times are 30 seconds and 60 seconds for RC and Fiber prints, respectively ... but I tend to fix film and prints for longer than necessary, anyway.
     
  18. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

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    Well, you shouldn't fix longer than necessary, particularly with prints, but that's another story.

    The biggest difference is wash time. This can be really helpful with fiber papers. Standard rapid fixers are acidic. TF4 is alkaline. TF5 is ~neutral. Washing is much faster than with acidic rapid fixers.

    Capacities and keeping properties are excellent too.

    For films developed in staining developers, although it is still a debtable issue and depends on the developer, the conventional wisdom is to keep the process alkaline or neutral after development for maximum stain.
     
  19. Mahler_one

    Mahler_one Member

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    I agree completely...in addition, if one orders some Formulary items from B&H the price for shipping is also less. Moreover, sometimes B&H has free shipping. Makes absolutely no sense at all.
     
  20. Mahler_one

    Mahler_one Member

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    I had the same reservations Michael, and that's why I posed the question to Ron. I think most of us would agree that Ron's knowledge of photochemisty would surpass that of most of us. However, I called Formulary last year, and asked about the affect of TF5 on Azo papers developed in Amidol. The person who answered was unable to provide an answer, and until the affect was known, suggested that it would be best to eschew the use of TF5 when using such materials. Perhaps Ron would like to chime in again?

    I wonder about the wash times.....Ilford's permanence sequence using their Rapid Fix does not indicate that the wash time with FB papers needs to be inordinately long. Is Ilford Rapid Fix acidic?
     
  21. Mahler_one

    Mahler_one Member

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  22. Photo Engineer

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    Initial work on TF5 included Amidol and Azo paper. In fact, that was a basic comparison point with my Azo type emulsion taught in workshops. So, that looks pretty good. The Formulary sends me just about every on-line query (e-mails), so that I can reply. I pretty much don't hear of any of the telephone comments or questions.

    I suggest that your real fix and wash times be adjusted based on retained silver and hypo tests. It is impossible to predict these times accurately because of differing water supplies world-wide. Therefore the fix times and wash times given are generous.

    I have fixers that fix in 15" and wash completely in 30" but I would not give out the formula because it is too chancy. It is very dependent on work flow and water supply. The times I give are real, and the proof is in having 5+ years of keeping to prove the quality of these prints.

    PE
     
  23. michael_r

    michael_r Subscriber

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    I don't have any reservations though. I'm saying TF5 is great, end of story.

    Yes Ilford's Rapid fixer (an excellent product) is acidic. Remember, Ilford's permanence sequence includes Hypo Clearing agent to help keep the wash time short. What I'm saying is that with most papers if you use a non-acidic fix you get shortened wash times without HCA, so the process is somewhat simpler. Not the biggest deal, but just something worth noting as a difference in process.
     
  24. Mahler_one

    Mahler_one Member

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  25. Mahler_one

    Mahler_one Member

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  26. Mahler_one

    Mahler_one Member

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    OK...thanks...and thanks to you Ron as well.