Phototherm SK-4 Processing Options with the Jobo C-41 Press Kit

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by Bronica645, Jun 21, 2012.

  1. Bronica645

    Bronica645 Member

    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Location:
    Charlottetow
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    My Phototherm Processor was used for 7-Step E-6.
    Now that there are no E6 Chemicals available in Canada & impossible to import.
    I am presently testing Kodak Ektar 100 & the Jobo C-41 Press Kit is the only combination easily available in Canada.
    The C-41 process programmed on the Phototherm is:
    Water Preheat: Varies
    Dev: 3:15
    Bleach: 6:30
    Water Wash: 1:30
    Fix: 6:30
    Water Wash (2X) : 1:30
    Stab: 1:30

    The Jobo C-41 Kit for Rotary Processors Times are:
    Dev: 3:15
    Blix: 6:00
    Water Wash: 2:00
    Water Wash: 2:00
    Stab: 1:30

    I do not want to change the chip ($100) for processing C-41 in the Phototherm since I do not process as a lab, also maybe in 3 months I may have to find another solution for the C-41 process due to availability of C-41 Chemicals in Canada. I can't skip steps with the Phototherm.
    My question is if I replace my step 2 Bleach/ Phototherm with water with some Stop Bath for 6:30.
    Will the film be damaged or inaccurate rotating in water that long (8 minutes in total) before the Blix Step?.
    I do want to save the chemicals for at least 12 rolls instead of the recommended 8 Rolls, the Blix will not contain any Developer this way, I will place the Blix in the Phototherm/ Fix Step.
    Wondering if anyone has a chemistry flavored answer before I try a 2-3 frames of a exposed film test
    I know the safe way would be to just wash for a extra 6:30 instead, otherwise replace the Fix/ Phototherm with water.
     
  2. hrst

    hrst Member

    Messages:
    1,300
    Joined:
    May 10, 2007
    Location:
    Finland
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I would just substitute both bleach and fix with blix and keep the washes as they are. That would double your blixing time but it shouldn't be a problem; instead, it can make the blix process more reliable, as the full blixing takes time.

    You could then use it as a "2-bath blix" like some people use 2-bath fixing for B&W. So when your blix is nearing its end of useful life, toss the first blix, replace it with the used second blix, and prepare a new second blix.

    If this is not OK, then I would just use blix instead of bleach, and water instead of fix. At least you will get a really thorough final washing then. However, keep the blix fresh by not trying to overuse it. It works in 6 minutes only when fresh. After a few developed films, you should increase the time.

    Those blix kits might benefit from using dev-stop-wash-blix cycles instead of direct dev-blix, but this seems impossible to do with that configuration.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 21, 2012
  3. CatLABS

    CatLABS Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,465
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Location:
    MA, USA
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    Champion photo chemicals, is a canadian company, making c-41 chemicals for minilabs that can be used in any home processing.
    I use their stuff easily and have been doing so for a long while.
    You do have to buy fairly large quantities, but its dirt cheap.

    I get mine at unique photo in NJ, but i am sure there is a way to source them directly in canada, heck their north america sales rep is based in toronto.
     
  4. CatLABS

    CatLABS Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,465
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Location:
    MA, USA
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    and - champion chems have a bleach and fix separate (so so cheap... :smile:
     
  5. Bronica645

    Bronica645 Member

    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Location:
    Charlottetow
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I just Googled Champion Chem & couldn't find much info. I tried Unique Photo found some products although maybe not everything is listed, there isn't much info about them either. I would need to know what the processing times are for what is available & which chemicals would be best suited in the smallest amounts possible. There is no way that Unique Photo would ship liquid chemicals to Canada, although if they do, shipping charges would be really high for hazardous materials. I have no idea how to find the Rep in Canada via the info I found. I haven't given up as yet, the so cheap is motivating me.

    "Those blix kits might benefit from using dev-stop-wash-blix cycles instead of direct dev-blix, but this seems impossible to do with that configuration."
    I agree, it would be benificial, actually it is possible although my film will be in a Stop Bath/Wash for 6:30 minutes followed by a Wash 1:30 minutes followed by the Blix 6:30 minutes.
    I am not sure if leaving the film rotating in water for 8 minutes total before the Blix step is a good idea or not.
    The idea of 2 Blix Steps is fine for the bleach part, although the extra fixing may affect the contrast & density of the negatives.
    Also I would be exhausting my Blix faster than my Developer.
     
  6. Bob-D659

    Bob-D659 Member

    Messages:
    1,300
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Location:
    Winnipeg, Ca
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The Kodak C41 chemistry is very available in Canada, just ask your local store to order the Kodak product codes in the sticky at the top of this forum.
    I got mine from Photo Central in Winnipeg.

    Edit: You can't buy direct from Champion, they manufacture for Kodak and Kodak distribute the chemicals worldwide.
     
  7. Bronica645

    Bronica645 Member

    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Location:
    Charlottetow
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I'm located on PEI, my best bet would be Henry's Camera, although they do not list Kodak C-41 chemicals on their site.
    I used to get my Kodak E6 5L Kits here locally since the government would also order some, those days are long gone.
    I have no problems with B&W chemicals locally as yet, color is a issue.
    The other problem is that I need to right development times for my processor or if I do change the programing chip I need these chemicals to be available for a while.
    I am just starting on the C-41 process again, last time I processed C-41 was 1975, processing E6 since then.
    This makes matters a little more difficult.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2012
  8. CatLABS

    CatLABS Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,465
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Location:
    MA, USA
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    RE times:
    c-41 times are globalized standard - what your photo therm has pre programmed is what you will need with champion or any other c-41 chems.
    Champion photo chemicals have no hasmat rating, thus can be shipped via UPS (at least thats what unique photo told me).
    Either way the champion website has all the info RE the chemicals that one might need, including pretty straight forward data sheets pdf's and so on.
    Unique has ti all though not everything is listed on their website.
    My contact person was a guy called Eugene. He seemed to know what he was talking about.

    Here is a link to everything you need to know:
    http://www.championphotochemistry.com/_uploads/products/pdf/021709135155_F5-MydonegSP-ULR-Sept%202008.pdf


    Basically you will need:
    Meydoneg SP ULR (dev replenisher) - 4X10L something like 80$ or so
    Dev starter (2X500ml, i think) about 15$
    Bleach meydoneg bleach plus 4X10 - not sure about pricing
    fixer plus (same size)
    stabilizer - i use sprint stabilizer, which is locally made, but you can use any wetting agent\stabilizer you like, or get it from champion but i think its more expensive.


    Easiest way is to get the product codes from the PDF and search uniques website for pricing. then call and ask for a better price for a boundle purchase as well as shipping discount.
    There you go.
     
  9. Bronica645

    Bronica645 Member

    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Location:
    Charlottetow
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Nice to receive the Basically you will need part from your personal experience, now everything seems a lot more understandable.
    I'll check out this info in detail.
    Thanks!
     
  10. Bronica645

    Bronica645 Member

    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Location:
    Charlottetow
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Unique Photo's estimation for the basically what I will need would be $225.00 for 40 Liters which is great, although the shipping via UPS is $195.00, not so great.
    The total will be more like close to $500.00 once the shipment goes through customs with UPS's extra charges for documentation & Canadian duties & taxes.
    Even if I made some 5L Kits to sell in Canada, my cost would be around $63.00 each. I still haven't purchased the appropriate bottles or boxes to ship them in. What are the odds that I get around $75.00 for a 5L Kit ? I would need to sell at least 6 Kits.
     
  11. CatLABS

    CatLABS Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,465
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Location:
    MA, USA
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    500$ will pay it self off after the 50th (or 200th sheet of 4X5) roll of film you put through it, should not take more then 2-3 weeks... :smile:
     
  12. Bob-D659

    Bob-D659 Member

    Messages:
    1,300
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Location:
    Winnipeg, Ca
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
  13. Bronica645

    Bronica645 Member

    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Location:
    Charlottetow
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I wish I would be able to find 50 rolls to develop in Atlantic Canada, I would start a C-41 processing business here.
    I could try a ad on Kijji to see if the demand is there.
    PEI Photo Lab are the people whom supplied my Kodak E6 5L Kit, since they had government orders at the same time I would get a great price.
    Now I imagine the price will go up quite a bit since they purchase a lot less from Kodak in general as film, chemicals etc.
    Shipping rates are another issue.
    I will research what Kodak has to offer to see what matches my processing times on the Phototherm.
     
  14. Sponsored Ad
  15. CatLABS

    CatLABS Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,465
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Location:
    MA, USA
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    i meant you will shoot 50 rolls.... i thought most poeple shoot that much anyways...
    i tell my students the 20 roll brick they get on the first of the semester should last not more then that week or two....
     
  16. Bronica645

    Bronica645 Member

    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Location:
    Charlottetow
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    I will never shoot 50 rolls of color negative film over the summer & fall.
    I specialize in panoramic format landscape photography, even previously with Velvia 50 film where exposure is critical, I would only expose 1 frame with no problem for a perfect transparency in order not to waste film. It will be like a walk in the park with neg film & C-41 for the latitude in exposures.
    I also photograph B&W & B&W infrared, I will reach about 50 rolls with color & B&W combined. I am really starting to miss E6 now, the results were amazing, hopefully I won't be disappointed with Kodak Ektar & C-41 with all the headaches to get there. Here is a sample image Velvia 100- Kodak E6 - 7 Step.


    GreenwichCP.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2012
  17. CatLABS

    CatLABS Subscriber

    Messages:
    1,465
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Location:
    MA, USA
    Shooter:
    Large Format
    if you shoot so little film, why not just send it out?
     
  18. Bronica645

    Bronica645 Member

    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Location:
    Charlottetow
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Can't, Too rewarding, the whole process from exposure to development & scanning.
    Besides it's also fun, although the situation I'm in isn't too much fun. I'll find a solution.
    You can't teach a old dog new tricks, I have been photographing & developing for 40 years now.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 22, 2012
  19. Simonh82

    Simonh82 Member

    Messages:
    252
    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2011
    Location:
    London, Unit
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    You could try looking further afield. Maco Direct will ship to Canada and they sell the Rollei c41 kits in various sizes. The 5L (100 roll) kit cost 56 euros and shipping to Canada is 49 euros. I don't know what the exchange rate is, or if you'd get dinged for import duty, but it might make sense for the kind of volumes you are dealing with.

    I'm sure it isn't as economical as buying in the huge bulk quantities, but then you have to worry about trying to sell it on.

    Also the rollei kits have fantastic shelf life for the concentrates, so you could use it over a couple of years.
     
  20. wogster

    wogster Member

    Messages:
    1,267
    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2008
    Location:
    Bruce Penins
    Shooter:
    35mm
    If there is a local photo store, and they are a Kodak dealer, get the part numbers from Kodak, and have them order the stuff for you. Forget Henry's, they are no longer interested in film and film products, just replacing last years $400 digital camera with this years $400 digital camera. There is the place in Winnipeg, they should be able to ship chemicals to you, if the local guy isn't interested.
     
  21. Bronica645

    Bronica645 Member

    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Location:
    Charlottetow
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Well my plan to Stop/Wash for 8 min. before the Blix Steps proved to be a bad idea.
    Now to try a 8 Min. Wash after the Blix since I still have to use up my Jobo 1L Kit for now.
    I thought of Maco Direct for Rollei Kits, I will check locally also.Winnipeg is also a option once I figure out what Kodak offers.
    How bad was the idea, this bad : Test.jpg
     
  22. Bob-D659

    Bob-D659 Member

    Messages:
    1,300
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Location:
    Winnipeg, Ca
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
  23. Bronica645

    Bronica645 Member

    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Location:
    Charlottetow
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    That's great Bob,Thanks, maybe I'll try find customers for processing, what is the name, the developing steps & times for the chemicals you have experience with?
    Finally the 8 minute Wash after the Blix works out better, the Test result below is Kodak ColorPlus 200, no adjustments, a direct scan. Actually the Test I messed up, shown on a previous post on this thread was the same film, no adjustments either.

    Test2.jpg
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 23, 2012
  24. Bronica645

    Bronica645 Member

    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Location:
    Charlottetow
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Bob,
    I did some research, if I could order these Chemicals would be great:
    Kodak Developer 1756337 6 x 2L
    Kodak Bleach 8824690 2 x 2.7L
    Kodak Fixer 8462681 2 x 3.9L
    Kodak Rinse 1925254 12 x 1.5L
    can you get a price quote with shipping to PEI, C1A 5G1?
    Never mind answering what I asked previously. I checked the Tech Sheet from your link,
    I'll see if PEI Photo Lab could order on Monday & the price to compare.
    Thanks
     
  25. Bob-D659

    Bob-D659 Member

    Messages:
    1,300
    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2008
    Location:
    Winnipeg, Ca
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Photocentral in Winnipeg have a web site, see http://www.photocentral.ca contact info on the bottom of the mail page. Just email them the Kodak product codes and ask for a quote.
     
  26. Bronica645

    Bronica645 Member

    Messages:
    37
    Joined:
    May 20, 2011
    Location:
    Charlottetow
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Bob,
    Will do, thanks for the info.