PMK Pyro and Jobo Rotary Processing

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by realitysandwich, Jun 11, 2005.

  1. realitysandwich

    realitysandwich Member

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    has anyone had any experience with processing film with PMK Pyro in a Jobo processer?
     
  2. Tom Duffy

    Tom Duffy Member

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    you ought to do a search of the archives using the word "Jobo" lots of info there.

    I'm of the conclusion that PMK does not work well in a Jobo. I spent quite some time varying development techniques trying to get it to work. Clear areas such as blue sky will always show processing streaks.

    in a Jobo, use Pyrocat HD, instead, and you won't have a problem.
    Take care,
    Tom
     
  3. nze

    nze Member

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    Hello

    you'd better use Rollo Pyro create by harald leban, there is an article on the Jobo web page. If you prefer to use PMK , You may use 2 bath of Pmk and change at half developing time. you may also add a sequestring agent as EDTA.

    At last I think that Pyrocat HD will easier to use in totary processing.

    regards
     
  4. Peter De Smidt

    Peter De Smidt Member

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    Yes, I've done it. My favorite method is to increase the amount of the A solution. I forget exactly how much. You can also dump out the solution half way through development and ad fresh developer, or you can inject the drum with nitrogen or argon before development.

    I don't use PMK anymore, though. I found the highlight compression to much with the films and VC paper that I used.

    -Peter
     
  5. wfwhitaker

    wfwhitaker Member

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    I've used PMK for sheet film in a 3005 drum and found that I needed to use an alkaline presoak to avoid streaks and other processing irregularities. The presoak I used was the B solution of PMK. No troubles after that, but like some other folks here, I've moved to using a different developer.
     
  6. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    I have been using Pyo in a Jobo system for 7-10 years now . There is a learning curve indeed. but I totally believe in this method.
     
  7. Loose Gravel

    Loose Gravel Member

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    It works for me, 45, 57, and 810. Been at it for over 10 years in a Jobo. I don' t use a Jobo base, though, I have a slower one. I start the film with a water presoak, filling the drum completely full of water. This I displace with nitrogen gas. Then I start the developer with just the part B in half the water for 2 minutes. Finally, I add the part A in its half of the water. The developer cycle has a cork in it to keep the nitrogen in.

    It is very even, even bald skies are even. Developer comes out of the drum as clear and lightly colored as it went in.
     
  8. Claire Senft

    Claire Senft Member

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    If you go to the unblinkingeye web site and printout and read Sandy King's article on Pyrocat HD he has comment to make about PMK vs Pyrocat Hd in regard to rotary processing. I highly recommend the article to anyone who has any interest in pyro development. A very good read indeed.
     
  9. wfwhitaker

    wfwhitaker Member

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    L. Gravel's comment prompts me to add that I've only used the Jobo drum with their manual roller base and not with the whole Jobo processor.
     
  10. sanking

    sanking Member

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    I used PMK as my primary developer for many years and know it very well. There is no question but that it can be made to work with rotary processing but it is definitely not the best choice in a staining developer for this application, even for silver printing. If you are developing for alternative processes PMK makes even less sense to me, either in trays or with rotary.

    Of the staining developers that are available commercially I would strongly recommend either Rollo Pyro and Pyrocat-HD for rotary processing. If you want to mix your own I would also recommend the Rollo-TEA formula, which I introduced about a year ago on this forum, which is a slight variation of Rollo Pyro mixed in TEA, or Jay De Fehr's 510 Pyro. You should be able to find the formulas for Rollo TEA or 510 Pyro with a search of the forum archives.

    With any staining developer I would also recommend that you reduce the rate of rotation to the slowest speed possible in order to keep B+F stain down.

    Sandy King
     
  11. Phillip P. Dimor

    Phillip P. Dimor Member

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    I've had decent success with doubling the A solution and cutting development time by 20 to 30%. *shrug*

    For a while I was using Acufine and Microphen on 4x5 film in a Uniroller and no matter what, I would get streaks. Prewet/prewash, Photo-flo/jet dry in every combination. Nothing.
     
  12. Ronald Moravec

    Ronald Moravec Member

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    Rotten luck, the developer oxididizes. Hutching recommends a nitrogen blanket in his book.

    4x5 in PMK is best dome in a sealed developing tank using inversion with little air. 4x5 nikor or jobo 2500 with the 6 sheet reel. With the Jobo, fill the bottom with developer, add the reel then more solution but not completely to the top as you need room for liquid movement. The developer comes out the same color as you started with, not so with open trays or tanks. The time will be much shorter too, as the developer will not spoil slowing the process.

    I now do 35 mm PMK in in closed tanks also it worked so well.

    Agitate i inversion and twist every 15 sec.

    Write up how you do.
     
  13. Dr. Dagor

    Dr. Dagor Member

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    Photo Formulary and ABC Pyro

    Photographer's Formulary worked with Harald Leban's formulas for Roto Pyro and came up with their spin on it (so to speak). Theirs is ABC Plus. Bob and team took the time to do extensive testing with various films and provide the results with their datasheet.

    http://www.photoformulary.com/Deskt...tabindex=2&categoryid=31&selection=0&langId=0

    One of the problems of any Pyro in rotary processors is foaming. I use a silicon anti foaming agent in extremely small quantity -- like 1 ml per liter -- to kill the foam. Being the LF on a shoe string type I am, I use the super fancy Rug Doctor Anti-Foam solution available at super markets and home improvement stores everywhere.

    http://www.rugdoctor.com/cleaning_products.aspx
     
  14. sanking

    sanking Member

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    The names are a little confusing, but just for the record the developer sold by Photographers' Formulary as ABC Pyro Plus is for all practical purposes the same as Rollo Pyro sold by Bostick and Sullivan. One of the interesting features of Leban's ABC Pyro Plus/Rollo Pyro formula is that it is one of the first pyrogallal based developers to use ascorbic acid.

    Harald Leban originally called his formula ABC+ but it was marketed by Bostick and Sullivan as Rollo Pyro.

    Of course, don't confuse the Formulary ABC Pyro Plus with the original ABC Pyro because they give very different results.

    Just for the record, I modified the ABC Pyro Plus/Rollo Pyro formula by substituting phenidoine for metol in the original formula and making it a one solution developer (you just mix with water to get a working solution) and I call this Rollo TEA. Its working characteristics are very similar to the original Rollo Pyro, though it is a bit more active.

    The formula for Rollo Tea is as follows.

    For 100 ml of stock solution, mix in the order as noted below. For a liter of stock solution multiply the amounts by 10X.

    Rollo-TEA

    TEA at 175º F
    Potassium bromide — 0.2 g
    Sodium bisulfite — 2.0 g
    Pyrogallol — 15.0 g
    Ascorbic acid — 1.0 g
    Phenidone — 0.2 g

    Add TEA to 100 ml

    For use, dilute 1:100 for silver printing or 2:100 for alternative work. The substitution of phenidone in place of metol at a ratio of one part phenidone for ten parts metol gives a lot of additional synergism to the developer and shortens development times.

    The advantage of the Rollo-TEA formula over the original Rollo Pyro formula, are:

    1. Rollo-TEA is a single solution developer to which one need add only water to have a working solution.

    2. With the substitution of phenidone for metol there is an increase in synergism. This gives shorter development times.

    Like Rollo Pyro, Rollo TEA is very clean working, with very tight grain and gives low B+F values in rotary processing, as in Jobo, BTZS type tubes, etc.

    The color of the stain is typical of pyrogallol based developers, ranging from greenish to greenish/yellow, or yellow/brown.

    Given their origin, composition and characteristics it is not unreasonable to call both ABC Pyro Plus/Rollo Pyro and Rollo TEA as direct descendants of PMK, kind of like PMK on steroids.

    Sandy