POP-paper in combined physical and chemical developing

Discussion in 'Contact Printing' started by Gigabitfilm, Jan 14, 2008.

  1. Gigabitfilm

    Gigabitfilm Member

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    From 1910-1920 a german description of developing pop-papers (chlorsilverhalide-gelatinepapers) with developers, but in lower acid pH. This was from the newspaper -Das Bild- from NPG Berlin (NPG was an important photofilm and paper factory in Berlin 1900-1920), page 266 ff: Dr. W. Knopp and Dr. A. Biltz, Erzielung farbiger Töne durch Entwicklung ankopierten Emerapapiers (How to get coloured tone by developing low level copied Emera-Paper). Interesting is on page 267 the statement:
    the time of copying is only 1/40 up to 1/60 of the time of normal copying and tonfixing,

    Here is the text - orig. text shortened from unimportance sentences and translated in denglish by Detlef Ludwig, Gigabitfilm.

    Erzielung farbiger Töne durch Entwickelung ankopierten Emerapapieres
    Colourtones by developing an underexposed contactpaper Emera

    Dr. W. Knopp und Dr. A. Biltz ( no date, around 1910-1920)
    Zeitschrift der NPG – Neue Photographische Gesellschaft: -Das Bild-, Heft 9, S. 266-275
    Magazin of NPG – Neue Photographische Gesellschaft: -Das Bild-, No. 9, page 266-275

    1. The copying time need only 1/40 – 1/50 of the regular copytime.

    2. It is in your hand, to to get stronger or lower contrast from the negative; strong exposed copies will develop harder than short exposed copies, which gets softer.

    3. Adding low quantities of special additives to the developer, together with normal fixing, results in a enormous variety of colour tones. Yellow, brown, oliv, green, a. s. o. up to carmesinred and violettblack are possible in brilliant, intensive colours, you get in no other procedure. It is possible to get pictures with no goldtoner fixing, you cannot detect from standard goldtoned ones.

    4. The durability of such developed papers is much greater than the tone-fixed ones and with the our experience it seems to be infinitively durable.

    The process of getting a picture is by contact papers not a developing process, it is an enforcement of the exposed grains by the silver richness of the paper itself – the „physical developing“. Normal developers cannot be used for these papers, because all normal developers react to strong and they will fog the paper. Only acid or neutral developers can be used, which work very slowly. In older times all photographer used these procedures.

    Procedure:

    You copy until you see the first shadow parts, in normal daylight 2 up to 5 minutes for starting with your experience will suffer. Then lay them by weak daylight in the developer, for a 9x12 cm take 50 ccm developer, because bigger quantities of the developer will solve silverhalide parts of the paper to the solution. The silverhalide of the paper will be to strong divided in the solution and cannot do react as wanted.

    About durability of the developer we can not say definitively. After some time the developer will get milky and must be disregarded. The surface of the dish get a silverstain, which you must remove from time to time. To reduce this silverstain add – as Liesegang told – some fishglue or big quantities of gummi arabicum to the developer. Thanks this the backside of the papers stay clean, because without they will get a dark tone.

    Before developing do not take the paper into water for to minimize spots and holes, because the silverhalide-substances will get out of the paper and you get reduced effects. If it must be, use the same, very little quantity of water for several papers, where you do before one or two not needed pieces of unused papers.

    When the paper will get good contrast, quickly do out of the developer and follow with good washing for reducing the after-developing. If the developer will contain to much of free acid, a Sulphur-toning will occur in fix-bath. To use NaCl-solution is not recommended, because the tonal quality can be reduced and the whites will get without tonal scales.

    As soon as the papers will come to the fix, colour will change and they get their final colour after some minutes. After 5 – 10 minutes fixing is finished, good washing must follow, it is a good device to harden in a 5 % Alaun.

    Developers 1 -5:

    1. Gallus acid 15 gr
    Natr. acet. 30 gr
    water 1000 ccm
    concentr. solution of gummi arabicum 50 ccm

    2. Metol 2 gr
    water 1000 ccm

    3. Hydrochinon 2 gr
    water 1000 ccm

    4. Take from Developer 2 20 ccm
    Developer 3 20 ccm
    for to get 40ccm

    5. Pyrogallol 2 gr
    water 1000 ccm



    Developer Aceton Citric acid Silvernitrat Ka-bichroma Cr-alaun Divers colour
    50 ccm drops 1: 3,drops 1 : 20,drops 1: 30,drops 1 : 30,ccm drops or ccm
    1 - - - - - - brown
    1 4 -10 - - - - - green
    1 - - - - 5 drops - green
    2 - - - - - - phot. brown
    2 20 - - - - - goldtone
    2 - 10 - - - - brown
    2 - - 15 - - Na-sulfit(1:10)10drops karminred
    2 - - - - - Wine-acid(1:4)5-10dr. yell.-brown
    3 - - - - - - yellow-brown
    3 10 - - - - - phot.brown
    3 - - - - 3 ccm - reddish
    3 - - 5 - - con. Gummi ar. 10ccm goldtone
    4 - - 5 - 10 ccm - lightbrown
    5 - - - - - - yellowbrown
    5 - - - 1 - - greenbrown
    5 - 5 drops - 2 - - oliv
    5 - 1 ccm - 2 - - chocolate
    5 - 1 ccm - 2 - Acetic acid 1 ccm darkredbrown

    If you want to get colours, then papers will be fix normally in 10 % fixing bath. If you want to tone with gold, then papers will be toned as usual, but you can use only papers with colour-tones in yellow up to yellowbrown as mentioned in the resulting colour list. The other darker tones will not work with goldtoning and if you want absolutely to tone them, then you must do them in follow bath after the fix:



    A. Water 100 ccm B. Chlorgold 1 gr
    Rhodanammonium 2 gr Water 100 ccm
    Soda 1 gr

    On 100 ccm A add 10 ccm B.

    Make only as much as you need for the day. In this goldtoner-bath you can change not sufficient pictures in better ones.

    The most best and cheapest way is to develop papers which have a goldtone-character without any goldbath, simply by developing and fixing. You can get pictures you cannot see any difference from that with gold toned.

    It is in your hand to get your results, with this list you have an advice how to do it. But there exist much more possible additives and we wish you the best effort.

    Commentar from 2008:

    The high quantity of silversalts in pop-paper is used for a combined physical and chemical developing, using low quantities of water. Thanks this a lot of colours (and also neutral tones) are possible, and a good photographic tone is possible with some work, which looks like goldtoned ones. Thanks the reduced exposure a better tonal scale occur, and because the diffusion is lower more details will appear.

    If the tabelle will appear in disorder because other digital system, you can ask me for the correct one.
     
  2. cahayapemburu

    cahayapemburu Restricted Access

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    Fascinating! Thank you, I can't wait to try this.
     
  3. mark

    mark Member

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    You got an explanation for the dumb and the tired? After trying to read this I have decided I am both.
     
  4. Jim Fitzgerald

    Jim Fitzgerald Member

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    Me too!

    Jim
     
  5. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member

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    I found it fairly easy to read, but that may be because I've read a lot of older photochemistry texts in German.

    Short summary: POP (Printing-Out Paper) can be developed in a variety of developers, giving increased printing speed and a vast variability in colour tone. The post summarises a set of useable developers and the tones resulting from them, and gives further advice on the procedures.
     
  6. mark

    mark Member

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    I am extremely interested in this but can't make heads or tails out of it. How about this:

    I want to get the Karminered what do I use. I think as soon as I get this explanation I will be able to decipher the rest of the secret German code.
     
  7. AgX

    AgX Member

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    Mark,

    Not all of us are living in nowhere land and are gifted with being a native speaker!
     
  8. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member

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    Try the table like this. The first column is develuper #, NOT amount.
     

    Attached Files:

  9. mark

    mark Member

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    No whee land? NO WHERE LAND:sad:

    Oh who am kidding yeah I live in no where land.

    Thanks Ole, That helped a lot.
     
  10. grayscale-berlin

    grayscale-berlin Member

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    s***.. they found our evil German code... again
    found it really interesting (but truly practical, reading a translation of a text which was written in German and try to translate it back to German while reading it) But thank you very much Detlef for showing this nice article, I think this widens the spectrum of use for the pop-paper.
    I thought you can´t really alter the contrast of the pop-print, but according to the text it is possible and that makes it interesting for me.. perhaphs i should try to get hands on a 8x10" camera, because pop prints of 35mm and 120mm negs look a little.. small, and as almost always, size does matter :D

    will search for the German version now
     
  11. Gigabitfilm

    Gigabitfilm Member

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    Thank you Ole for your work with the pdf.

    In the second line, the full line is correct

    1 4until10drops - - - - - brown


    In my first text it is better to read

    A. Water 100 ccm
    Rhodanammonium 2 gr
    Soda 1 gr

    B. Chlorgold 1 gr
    Water 100 ccm

    On 100 ccm A add 10 ccm B.

    If you want, you can send me your adress and I will copy for in Berlin you the text, but please, make a liitle revision of my DENGLISH. Our friends here wiil have a better life thean. The whole time I am thinking, you all in US understand your new govenor Schwarzenberger and his Kraut-english.:wink:
     
  12. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member

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    Ah - I wondered about that line since I couldn't get it to match up!

    "Rhodanammonium" is ammonium thiocyanate.
    "Soda" is sodium hydroxide, AKA lye.
    "Clorgold" is gold(III) chloride.
    "Weinsäure", wine-acid, is tartaric acid.

    Have I forgotten anything?
     
  13. mark

    mark Member

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    I don't live i that state but our insane governor talks so fast no one listens to her.

    As for making my life meaningful, if I can capture the plum (Purplish Red) color of an un develped POP paper I will be very happy. I have simple desires.
     
  14. ath

    ath Member

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    I think, Soda is Sodium carbonate, Na2CO3.
     
  15. AgX

    AgX Member

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    Lye would be `Natronlauge´, Ole.
     
  16. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member

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    ath and AgX, you are right. Thank you. It is sodium carbonate.

    Now I'll get back to my Eitelsbacher Kathäuserhofberg, if you don't mind. :D
     
  17. PHOTOTONE

    PHOTOTONE Member

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    We in the United States have 50 governors, one for each of the 50 states. Most of them don't speak as clearly as Schwarzenberger.