Discussion in 'Alternative Processes' started by Curt, Sep 3, 2009.
Where is the best place to order 1 lb of Potassium Dichromate in the US?
Bostick & Sullivan has it.
Keep in mind it's now classified as a Hazardous Material and you need HAZMAT shipping that adds $25 to the cost. (same with all the dichromates)
You'll save more if you live in a metro area where you can buy it locally and pick it up in person. Or if you know someone in a university chem department who can order it for you.
Because I had a big supply of mine I haven't bought any since everyone has gotten so picky about the stuff.
I'll second Bostick & Sullivan. For some reason, Photographer's Formulary requires you to fill out a DEA form for potassium dichromate but not for ammonium dichromate... no idea why that's the case though.
I have seen more restrictions on Potassium Dichromate vs. Ammonium as well. I believe PD is considered more reactive. Until recently AD did not require hazmat shipping. But classifications change.
I really don't understand the DEA form from Photographer's Formulary. It would seem that if that form is really legally required, then everyone should require it. Curious.
I don't get it either. Since it's a federal agency, I'd imagine all distributors would have to comply. Since the DEA is involved, could it be that PD is a starting reagent for some "infernal" reaction?
Thanks for the replies Ash and John, it seemed like an anomaly to me, the further I researched into it the more vague it became. All I can surmise is that the Photographer's Formulary must have had some problem or incident with the chemical or it's end use.
Some hazardous materials can be shipped without the hazmat fee provided they are in small enough quantities. KD should be available in 1 lb. quantities without the charge provided it's not going by air. PF seems to the the outlier WRT the DEA form for KD purchases.
As I understand it, Pot. Dichromate is an ingredient in home-cooked meth
Pottasium Dichromate is a hexavalent chromium compound. As well as ingestion and inhalation, it can also be absorbed through the skin. Google toxicity for a heads up. IIRC I remember reading that it also is capable of burning under certain circumstances ( not something we have to worry about).
Ammonium Dichromate doesn't have the DEA requirement that Potassium Dichromate does, would this be a better substitution? It's used for spirit sensitizing and uses less than tray sensitizing in Potassium Dichromate.
What process are you using this material for?
Sounds to me like Bromoil, John.
Carbon Transfer, tray sensitizing.
In general, Ammonium Dichromate will give you more sensitivity but less contrast than Potassium Dichromate
potassium dichromate and DEA form
Thanks for bringing this to everybodys attention.
But as what sometimes happens on forums, some mis information has been transmitted and must be corrected. if I may.
I am holding in my hands a hard copy titled as follows;
US Dept of Justice
Drug enforcement Administration
Office of Diversion Control
Chemical Investigation Section
SPECIAL SURVEILLANCE LIST
Published Pursuant to title 21 USC 842 (a) (11)
Under special suveilllance list #19 Potassium Dichromate
That list has 27 different compounds that require a DEA form to purchase.
There are another 34 compounds that are listed chemicals.
Under products used to create Meth that could at sometime require a DEA form but apparantly don't now, I will give some examples;
Cream of tartar
Inhalers (especially Vicks)
striking pads on matchbook covers
And the list goes on and on. You may see all of this at http://home.leo.gov/tha/drugs/grugs.htm
Does anybody have any of the above list around your home, business, or even worse your darkroom?
Why do we require a DEA form? because the Government tells us we have to.
What happens to the DEA form after we recieve it? It goes into a file cabinet in our office. No it does not get forwarded to the DEA. (YET)
Why do we require and Bostick and Sullivan doesn't? I don't know but maybe they can join this discussion and we will find out.
Also someone made the comment that the Formulary probably had an incident or accident,(probably mis quoted), no that is not the case, we just like to do things the right and legal way to avoid any incidents or accidents and avoid some guy with sunglasses and a badge that says DEA showing up at our door.
If someone would like to discuss this with someone in charge at the DEA;
I could rant alot more about this and Government Regs that may or may not be good for ours and other industries but I won't take up APUG'S storage space.
1) The stupid thing is that a proper meth lab won't have ANY problems getting what they need.
2) A properly trained chemist will know how to substitute around any of these lists.
3) The addled tweaker who thinks that WOW I can be a drug lord hasn't got the brain cells left to work out what to do with a full pallette of synthetic chemicals if he could get hold of 'em anyway.
These lists are what is known as "The Theatre of Security", which is a posh way of describing the true motive.
(I'm number 2 on the list above BTW, and its instructive to enlighten credulous people who believe all the BS, how, if someone puts their mind to it, practically ANY collection of household items can be used for nefarious purposes. It gives their certainties a bit of a shake to put it politely)
Bud, thank you for coming on and opening up the discussion. I did some research over the weekend and decided to purchase my chemicals from your company. Sherry sent me an email this morning saying she got my ID and since I only have a scanner and not a fax machine the fax was not readable so I have the DEA form right here in an envelope with a stamp on it. What bothers me is that eBay has the chemicals, no ID, no DEA, anybody can order them. A nut case or a child it doesn't matter. I didn't know about its use in Meth until a few days ago and I also found that it can be lethal which is reason enough to make sure it is used by responsible individuals. If you want to dot the i's and cross the t's it's all right with me.
potassium dichromate and dea form
Thanxs Curt, it nice to have confirmation that we are doing things rite and if we do there will be support for it.
Ebay is a whole other subject. I think it is a matter of time and you will see that change. It is just that our enforcement personel are chasing the "big guys" in the drug business and not the little guys. Some on Ebay don't have any idea what they are selling.
FYI our company policy includes that if you ask for a product as a food additive, we won't sell it to you, if you ask for a product for for lotions or soaps to use on your skin, we won't "knowingly sell it to you". We sell Photo
chemicals to photographers, and the DEA forms help us know.
We also find that when someone balks at the DEA form, they probably aren't using the product for photography anyway. So go get it somewhere else.
Anyone that personally knows me or has actually met me knows that I am not someone that agrees with the government gathering information on the general public, and that is what this DEA form looks like and seems to be doing. But as I said prior, They go into OUR file cabinet, and we do not forward to DEA. But I suppose if the guy in sunglasses with a DEA badge shows up he will get access to the file cabinet.
Damned if you do and damned if you don't!!!!!!!!
One never knows when some Unibomber-type is going to try and buy chemicals.
Anyway, it seems like the Feds need a way to keep track of the people that are unwilling to fill out those forms...
I sent in the form for potassium dichromate several years back and it's still on file- just got some more a few weeks back with no problems.
Separate names with a comma.