Prints in Viradon 'fizzing'

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by Nige, Jul 29, 2004.

  1. Nige

    Nige Subscriber

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    Recently went to tone a print in Viradon and when I inserted the print (after it had been soaking in water for a few minutes) it start to 'fizz' on the print surface. I tried a few other prints and they fizzed so I mixed up some new Viradon (my working solution was quite old) and tried a few more... Still fizzed (and got uneven toning as a result). I've used this stuff several times and never had this problem. I've always mixed it using tap water but I could try distilled if that's thought to possibly be a solution. I tried both RC and GB prints and it happened to both. Ideas?
     
  2. John McCallum

    John McCallum Member

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    Holy smoke Batman! I know one of the byproducts of Veradon action is sulphur dioxide (gas), and the rate of action of Veradon is quite temperature related. Have sometimes had particularly fast action at higher temps previously, but never experienced actual fizzing (sorry).
    Sounds like it is acting to fast. Normally takes 3-6 mins before colour change on Agfa MC111 glossy after Agfa fast fixer, for me. What is your dilution? Might well be worth trying changing the water next.
     
  3. Nige

    Nige Subscriber

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    Yeah, it was strange! The print looked like it was disolving!

    I mixed whatever the pkt said... 1:50 I think. This is 'old' Viradon. The temp would have been on the colder side or normal and I didn't get much color change of the ones I left in to see just what would happen. I might mix up a bit with distilled at 20C and see if that works.
     
  4. photomc

    photomc Member

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    WOW! Have not seen that, matter of fact when I mix mine up it immediately turns a milky yellow (must be something in the water here)..but fizzing? Nige, what developer/fixer combo are you using - maybe that has something to do with it. Let us know if you find out anything, because I like Viradon (can't find any old so I tone in KRST first then Viradon).
     
  5. Nige

    Nige Subscriber

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    I like Viradon because by direct toning, you get a browned print with neutral colour change of the highlights, as oposed to Sepia bleach/tone which I find makes everything too creamy and brown.

    Developer is Agfa Neutol NE, Ilford stop and Ilford Paper Fixer (not Hypam... I got a 5lt bottle for next to nothing). Paper tested was Agfa RC (MCP312), Agfa FB and Sterling FB.
     
  6. John McCallum

    John McCallum Member

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    The fixer should be fine Nige.
     
  7. photomc

    photomc Member

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    Well, nothing in the developer/fixer etc that gives me a clue...which leaves the water it is made up in or the Viradon itself. I think your only test left is to make it up using distilled water and see what happens.

    Use it for the same reason, I like the direct tone action and really was not as please with the two step process of Sepia bleach/tone..but just my preference. Had considered using Kodak Brown toner but came across a bottle of Viradon at one of the local photo shops and liked it.
     
  8. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    I tried viridon in the past and I always had problems with a scum or milkyness left on the print surface. A slight acid bath and long rewash seemed to fix the problem but this left me very doubtful about viridon. I also sometimes (but rarely) had the same problem with kodak brown toner.
    I never get this problem with kodak sepia toner.
    bob carnie
     
  9. John McCallum

    John McCallum Member

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    Bob I've sometimes had the same result. Veradon often often leaves a sediment in the tray, and occasionally leaves a milky residue on the print surface, especially in areas of shadow where it has done the most work. This can easily be removed by wiping with a damp soft cloth, usually leaving a lovely rich dark chocolate tone (especially on glossy paper). regards, John.
     
  10. Ole

    Ole Moderator Staff Member Moderator

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    The scum is elemental sulfur. It dissolves and vanishes quite neatly in a fairly strong (10%, 20% or more) solution of sodium sulfite, which is also the best way to stop the toning action.
     
  11. titrisol

    titrisol Member

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    Fizzing can only come from the formation of SO2 which is normal.

    But maybe the pH of either your prints or your water is to balme in that one.
    Work in a well ventilated area, the rotten egg smell is not only nasty but mildly toxic.
     
  12. Scott McFadden

    Scott McFadden Member

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    Um the oringinal post sounds a lot like undissolved fixer contaimination.
    Viradon is very picky on clean prints , found this out the hard way when I tried to hide a stain caused by a faulty drying rack.
    The viradon really drew attention around the rust stain. also after that I figured to try something by dipping the print into an old(luckly) fixer solution... this caused fizz for a bit and uneven tonality as if that really mattered anyways.
    Another print showed a small gain in latent highlight detail after toning. so its got my vote for future use.
     
  13. Nige

    Nige Subscriber

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    well I've given it another go.. but not on my print that I really want to tone. Tried almost everything mentioned (haven't tried mixing it up with distilled yet) and got varying levels of 'fizzing' from mild to wild! Spongeing the print under running water gave me the best result (most even toning) but it still wasn't right. What I don't understand is I've used this before (same bottle, same paper) and didn't have any fixing or uneven toning.