Problem using a 50mm lens with a Durst M605

Discussion in 'Enlarging' started by Ben Taylor, Nov 20, 2007.

  1. Ben Taylor

    Ben Taylor Member

    Messages:
    108
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2003
    Location:
    Norwich, UK
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hello,

    I'm returning to my darkroom after a regrettably long absence. I've hit a frustrating problem I wondered if anyone here could shed some light on (so to speak...).

    I have an Agfa C66 which is a re-branded Durst M605, I have two enlarging lenses an 80mm and a 50mm. I've only ever used the 80mm lens which has been fine for my medium format work and the occasional small 35mm enlargement.

    I'm now wanting to do more 35mm work. Using the 80mm lens for this means that for a 10x8 enlargement I have to have the enlarger head almost at the top of the column giving unacceptably long exposure times.

    I decided to give the 50mm lens a go, but I can't seem to make enlargements bigger than about 13x18cm (5x7"). At this size the focusing stage is up as far as it will go and the bellows is completely compressed making it impossible to focus the image if I try to go any larger.

    I'm obviously missing something fundamental here. I know I should be able to enlarge to well over this size with a 50mm lens so I must be doing something wrong. Does anyone have an idea of what that might be?

    Many Thanks,

    Ben.
     
  2. tleirtro

    tleirtro Subscriber

    Messages:
    41
    Joined:
    Dec 11, 2002
    Location:
    Trondheim, N
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Not sure about this specific enlarger (I have a M70) but if you have a "tube formed" lensboard (Vegatub 39?) you can try reversing this one to get the lens closer to the negative. If that doesn't work you will probably have to get another lensboard made for the 50mm (maybe Sinopla 39).

    Regards,
    Thor Egil
     
  3. Ben Taylor

    Ben Taylor Member

    Messages:
    108
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2003
    Location:
    Norwich, UK
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks for your suggestion, I did wonder about the lensboard.

    My enlarger came with two Siriopla lensboards, both identical, I had assumed they could be used with both lenses. I read that the Siriopla 39 is recommended for 50-90mm lenses, so I thought what I have should be OK.

    It seems odd that the 'correct' position for the 50mm lens would seem to be about half way up the bellows when they're fully compressed. This would require a heavily recessed lensboard, perhaps such a thing exists and that's what I'm missing?

    Perhaps the whole focusing stage & bellows are interchangeable and I have the wrong kind?
     
  4. Dave Miller

    Dave Miller Member

    Messages:
    3,894
    Joined:
    Dec 22, 2003
    Location:
    Middle Engla
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    It's not unusual to use a recessed lens board with a 50mm lens to overcome the problem you describe.
     
  5. Struan Gray

    Struan Gray Member

    Messages:
    914
    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2004
    Location:
    Lund, Sweden
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    The M601 I used to use a lot had a "Setopla 2838" recessed plate for the 50mm lens. Without it, as you found, only small prints could be made.

    It's the same plate used for some of the more modern enlargers like the Laborator 1200, so there may be some stocks available new. Jobo USA have them on their website:

    http://www.jobousadarkroom.com/products/durst_l1200.htm

    (scroll down for the accessories)
     
  6. ben-s

    ben-s Member

    Messages:
    443
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Location:
    Nottingham,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I've got an M70, and I have to use a recessed lensboard for my 50mm.
    I believe it's called a siriotub or something similar.
     
  7. RH Designs

    RH Designs Advertiser

    Messages:
    657
    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2003
    Location:
    Yorkshire Da
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Yes, my LPL uses a reversible lens mount - one way it's recessed for 50mm, turn it over and it projects for 80mm. I don't know the Durst but might it be that simple?
     
  8. ben-s

    ben-s Member

    Messages:
    443
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Location:
    Nottingham,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    You can't reverse the Durst boards. I tried it once, but it leaked light everywhere.
    They have a stepped side and a chamfered side - the chamfer must face down
     
  9. ben-s

    ben-s Member

    Messages:
    443
    Joined:
    Jul 12, 2006
    Location:
    Nottingham,
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I've just checked my manual, and the correct board for the 50mm is the Siriotub 39. As I said before, I have an M70, but I think the boards are interchangeable.
     
  10. jgcull

    jgcull Member

    Messages:
    911
    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2003
    Location:
    nc
    I can tell you where to get the Seriopla, if you have a time finding stuff for the M605. I got mine from Barry Newhart, who does M605 repairs. He also answers questions happily. Nice guy! 610 525-69998.

    I have a Lapla 39, which is more flat, for the 80mm lens and the more cup-shaped Seriopla for the 50.

    Also, like I pm'd... if you ever still have problems focusing after changing lenses, sort of move that head forward a tad and back again into position - then try focusing. I often have to do that. Don't know why.

    Janet
     
  11. Ben Taylor

    Ben Taylor Member

    Messages:
    108
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2003
    Location:
    Norwich, UK
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks all for your help and advice.

    It seems I'm using the wrong lensboard, my two Siriopla lensboards are for use with the 80mm lens and I do indeed need a recessed board for the 50mm.

    I've just found and ordered a Siriotub 39 lensboard (which is cup-shaped) so I'll give that a go.

    Thanks again,

    Ben.
     
  12. srs5694

    srs5694 Member

    Messages:
    2,725
    Joined:
    May 18, 2005
    Location:
    Woonsocket,
    Shooter:
    35mm
    The lensboard issue is almost certainly correct; however, for the benefit of other readers who might search for and find this thread in the future, I'll mention that there are 50mm lenses, mostly made in Russia, that have longer barrels than most. These lenses don't work well with many Japanese and Western enlargers, at least not for prints over a certain size. For instance, I've got a Russian Vega-11U 50mm lens which works well for up to about 11x14-inch enlargements on my Philips PCS130, but beyond that it's impossible to focus. On a Durst C35 I used to have, such lenses won't work at all for anything bigger than about 4x6 or 5x7-inch. Russian enlargers obviously were designed to put the lens threads closer to the negative than most enlargers people here would use. A few such lenses use a removable extension tube, and so can be easily "fixed" to work well. I've got an Industar-50U which is built like this; to use it with a Western enlarger, the extension tube can be removed and it'll work fine. Sadly, the higher-quality Vega isn't built this way.
     
  13. pentaxuser

    pentaxuser Subscriber

    Messages:
    7,925
    Joined:
    May 9, 2005
    Location:
    Daventry, No
    Shooter:
    35mm
    A big added benefit with my 50 is that max fstop is 2.8 whereas its 5.6 for the 80. The extra light with the 50 is a big help in focusing.

    If yours is the Durst M605 by any other name don't forget the switch to the 35 box instead of the 66, otherwise the light level suffers a little.

    pentaxuser
     
  14. Ben Taylor

    Ben Taylor Member

    Messages:
    108
    Joined:
    Jun 12, 2003
    Location:
    Norwich, UK
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Thanks to the remarkably quick service from an eBay seller I can confirm that the lensboard was the issue.

    My new Siriotub recessed lensboard works a treat with my 50mm lens. I'm very pleased to have this problem resolved so I can get on with some printing this evening. Thank you to everyone who pointed me to the problem!

    Out of interest I tried a (rather poor quality) 50mm lens I have from an ancient Russian enlarger and have found the same thing. This lens has a long barrel and so doesn't work for anything other than small enlargements, even with the recessed lensboard.

    Ben.
     
  15. gamincurieux

    gamincurieux Subscriber

    Messages:
    298
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2009
    Location:
    Melbourne, A
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Why then, using a Schneider 50mm on the Siriotub, can't I focus? This lensboard is correct for the lens. When using either my Nikon or Fujinon 50mm lens I don't have a problem focussing.... though admittedly the bellows are aaaaalmost fully closed up with these two - main thing is I can focus. Put the Schneider back on and I can't focus! Strange I reckon.
     
  16. gamincurieux

    gamincurieux Subscriber

    Messages:
    298
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2009
    Location:
    Melbourne, A
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Same prob for me, only it happens with just one of the three 50mm lenses I have. Normal operation & focusing with the Nikon and Fujinon lenses, BUT with the Schneider bloody lens it just won't bloody-well focus, the bellows are fully compacted up, won't go any further!!! I just don't get it, I've tried everything imaginable.
     
  17. gamincurieux

    gamincurieux Subscriber

    Messages:
    298
    Joined:
    Jan 19, 2009
    Location:
    Melbourne, A
    Shooter:
    35mm
    And now another problem, albeit not a huge one. I have just picked up a Rodenstock Rodagon 50mm 2.8, the older style with the silver knobs around it.

    It sits so far into the Siriotub that I cannot see the red/green glowing aperture numbers.

    However, I CAN focus it.... unlike the Schneider problem above. I've since gotten rid of the Schneider anyway, no love lost. That leaves me with the Nikon/Rodenstock/Fujinon, that's quite enough!

    But this not being able to see the illuminated aperture setting on the Rodagon because it is obscured by the Siriotub, has anyone else noticed this & have you been able to do anything about it???

    I never for a moment envisaged having hassles of any kind with any lens on the M605!!!

    I mean, sure I can count, I'll be able to use it (haven't as yet:wink:, but I would still like to be able to see it like I can easily with the Nikon (the Fujinon's aperture is not illuminated).

    And, about the Fujinar, does anyone know anything about them? Formally it's the FUJINAR-E 1:4.5 f=5cm.... with the brown aperture ring & black aperture locking ring..... not much info at all out there about these.
     
  18. Rick A

    Rick A Subscriber

    Messages:
    7,289
    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2009
    Location:
    northern Pa.
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I have a similar problem with a Schneider 80mm lens, my cure was to post the aperture settings on the side of my enlarger and count the clicks from wide open til the desired setting.

    Rick