Process E6 with c-41 and other replacements

Discussion in 'Color: Film, Paper, and Chemistry' started by Kloppervok, Jun 19, 2010.

  1. Kloppervok

    Kloppervok Member

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    Well, well.

    I took the plunge and attempted to process a roll of E6 using f-76+ and c-41 dev and try to get a positive image, but something went wrong, and i got a negative.

    What i did was
    -b/w dev
    -bleach
    -fix
    -fog
    -c-41 process

    What i received was:
    [​IMG]
    As good as scan as I can produce looks like:
    [​IMG]

    Needless to say, that's not a positive.

    I was recommended that i just do the following:
    -b/w dev
    -fog
    -c-41 process

    and that should be enough to generate a positive image with positive film. Can anyone collaborate on this?

    I know there are a couple threads on this, but there was some inconsistent info and they tended to go OT within a couple posts.
     
  2. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    Well, that process will only give a negative.

    You must:

    B&W dev
    wash or stop
    Fog
    C41 process

    The bleach and fix should either have given blank film or a weak negative image depending on the type of bleach used.

    PE
     
  3. Athiril

    Athiril Subscriber

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    'What i did was
    -b/w dev
    -bleach
    -fix
    -fog
    -c-41 process'

    That will give a very bad negative, it should be fix before bleach to get a reasonable negaive.

    Or as PE says for a positive like you wanted originally, bleach then fix only after C-41 developer stage.


    I should mention I've had nothing but trouble trying to use normal b&w developers @ 20c to make a colour positive, though I've only tried a couple. But have had great success re-processing to a colour negative with a 20c b&w first developer.
     
  4. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    But why waste the step of a "first developer" to get a negative, when you can use a C41 color developer directly and save steps?

    Then it would be just C41 developer, bleach wash fix wash stab.

    PE
     
  5. Kloppervok

    Kloppervok Member

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    PE, are you suggesting that i do

    -Color Dev
    -fog
    -C-41 process

    ?

    Also, it came to my attention that RA-4 developer contains cd-3, just like E-6 color dev. Any thoughts on using that to replace the color developer in this step?
     
  6. Athiril

    Athiril Subscriber

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    Cold/ambient process all the way, trying out traditional techniques and seeing what you get, and of course, the fun of non-standardised processing like you get from b&w :smile:

    I actually started doing this and using C-41 for reversals as a colour developer when I had the very last of my C-41 developer ages ago left and it was exhausted beyond normal C-41 times, testing only changes the times again.. as opposed to processing to completion.. I know.. very cheap and nasty.. but I found it did have a lot of life left in it where I wouldnt be able to continue using it for standard C-41 processing.

    That's wha you should do (I edited the quote) for reversals.

    Zorkicat used RA-4, he commented the pH needs to be changed to reflect E-6 CD to stop a yellow colour cast kind of look.
     
  7. thisismyname09

    thisismyname09 Member

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    If you did that, the first color developer would form a negative image dyes, and the second would form a positive image in dyes, neither of which get bleached out, and you'd have a black piece of film. The first developer is just so that you can get an image on the film to reverse and should not form any dyes.

    As PE said, you just need to develop it in any B&W developer, give it a good rinse to get all the developer out, fog it, and send it through the C41 process.
     
  8. Kloppervok

    Kloppervok Member

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    Ok, great. I've started doing it again tonight, and I'll post results later.

    Is it possible to over develop the c-41 developing stage? The z119 says that this step can be done in daylight, and others have mentioned that I should visually follow the progress of my film.

    What am I looking for in the visual examinations?
     
  9. Athiril

    Athiril Subscriber

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    If you're making reversals, you cant over do the colour developer step (C-41 in your case), and I'd recommend a longer time than 3min 15sec for that step.

    I guess you could overdo if you left it that long in there the film fell apart.
     
  10. Kloppervok

    Kloppervok Member

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    [​IMG]

    Well there we are.
    There's a strong blue cast on overexposed images, and the properly exposed ones are grayish and dense.

    Is this where cd-3 vs cd-4 makes a difference? Or is this where I would have to adjust the pH of my developer to make it more like E6 developer (whatever that is)
     
  11. Photo Engineer

    Photo Engineer Subscriber

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    There are too many variables to tell here. If you used a B&W first developer, then the developer may be misbalanced or the time may be off. The color developer is certainly wrong as is the ingredient mix.

    PE
     
  12. Athiril

    Athiril Subscriber

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    It seems a bit dense, from my experience in doing this, Id say you need to increase time or temperature. Obviously you could try changing the pH of the developer if you wished.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 24, 2010