Processing Kodak Tri-x Super 8 B&W Reversal Film as negative in D-76?

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by ruby_love, Jun 8, 2011.

  1. ruby_love

    ruby_love Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I recently acquired two Super 8 film cameras, and am interested in experimenting with film making. I currently have a darkroom, and have developed still film and prints for a few years now. Because Kodak does not sell negative Super 8 black and white film, I would like to skip having to buy too many more chemicals, and avoid the bleaching process by just processing the Tri-x reversal film as a negative. I know this is possible to do, and I've heard of people processing Super 8 film in D-76 but am finding it difficult to come across any specific "recipes" or instructions on how to do this.

    I'm looking to get a pretty rough, grainy look out of this film to give it an antique look, so I'm not too picky about the film coming out perfectly clean or without scratches. As long as I can run the thing through the projector, and get a fairly recognizable image out of it, I'll be content.

    Does anyone have any links/information on how to develop this type of film bucket-style and as a negative?

    Thanks.
     
  2. BetterSense

    BetterSense Member

    Messages:
    3,126
    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2008
    Location:
    North Caroli
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Are you planning to print the negative film to more negative film? Most people that shoot 8mm shoot reversal. I'm not sure if you can even get 8mm film printed anywhere.
     
  3. ruby_love

    ruby_love Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Shooter:
    35mm
    I'm planning on digitizing the film after developing it, and using software to reverse it (i.e. to end up with a positive film).
     
  4. holmburgers

    holmburgers Member

    Messages:
    4,423
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Location:
    Rochester NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Hmm, I'd say you more or less know all there is to know. Develop it in D-76 for a reasonable amount of time, like 7 minutes (off the top of my head) and treat it like normal film. I believe there is no rem-jet backing on the black & white MP film.

    The bucket style gives really gritty results as I understand it, but I think there's another method wherein you wrap it around a cylinder (emulsion out) and process in a bucket. There are also some LOMO tanks that can process 10 meters and 30 meters of film in either S-8 or 16mm.

    Out of curousity, how are you going to get the software-reversed images back onto film? Or do you mean "film" in the movie sense?
     
  5. SkipA

    SkipA Member

    Messages:
    604
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2002
    Location:
    127.0.0.1
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    There is no REMJET backing on Tri-X reversal. Kodak says it can be processed in D-76 to negative. The speed is only 1/2 to 2/3rds the speed for reversal processing, so you'll need to overexpose in the camera to compensate.

    7278 (old emulsion) http://www.kodak.com/US/plugins/acrobat/en/motion/products/bw/h17278.pdf
    7266 (new emulsion) http://motion.kodak.com/motion/uploadedFiles/US_plugins_acrobat_en_motion_products_bw_7266.pdf

    I always process it as a reversal film for projection. I've never processed it negative.

    Check out the forums on filmshooting.com. It's devoted to small format movie film.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 8, 2011
  6. ruby_love

    ruby_love Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Thanks! To answer your question, I don't plan on putting it back on film once it's reversed digitally. I'm not even sure how you'd go about doing that..hm..


     
  7. ruby_love

    ruby_love Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Good to know. Thanks for the help!

     
  8. holmburgers

    holmburgers Member

    Messages:
    4,423
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Location:
    Rochester NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    "Putting it back onto film" is no trivial task, to say the least. Actually, it sounds about a hundred times more difficult than just reveral processing it in the first place.

    It's one thing if you just want to turn it into a DVD, in which case you can just scan the negative, but scanning a negative, reversing it, and putting it back onto the film?? :/
     
  9. Pete_d

    Pete_d Member

    Messages:
    2
    Joined:
    Dec 6, 2009
    Location:
    Milwaukee
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I've successfully developed the 7266 film stock in a LOMO tank with Rodinal 1:50 for 15min/20c
    It was a bit dense and very grainy, but totally usable and interesting.

    the user forum isn't letting me post a link to the video on youtube since I'm a newbie.

    I'm going to try out XTOL next.
     
  10. holmburgers

    holmburgers Member

    Messages:
    4,423
    Joined:
    Aug 13, 2009
    Location:
    Rochester NY
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    Sounds cool Pete, would love to see it. I think you should be able to post a link after a couple more posts, or you can just add the URL and we can add the .com, or whatever.
     
  11. ruby_love

    ruby_love Member

    Messages:
    8
    Joined:
    May 15, 2011
    Shooter:
    35mm
    Sounds really interesting. Looking forward to the link!!
     
  12. jorj

    jorj Member

    Messages:
    43
    Joined:
    May 2, 2011
    Location:
    Philadelphia
    Shooter:
    Medium Format
    Sounds like more trouble than just doing the reversal process. It's not too scary; I ran 100' of Tri-X reversal 16mm myself a few weeks back. Then again I have all of this stuff lying around from other processes.

    First developer: 1+5 PQ Universal, 1L, + 12g sodium thiosulfate

    Washed in 0.2% EDTA for 2 minutes (woulda been fine in plain water, probably)

    Bleached for 10 minutes in:
    800mL water
    36mL of 35% sulfuric acid (from the auto body shop, plain "battery acid", as-is)
    9.5g potassium dichromate
    make up to 1L

    quick rinse, then clearing bath for 5 minutes:
    800mL water
    50g sodium sulfite
    make up to 1L

    rinse well; re-expose the film to light briefly but evenly, then second developer, 1+9 PQ Universal, 6 minutes.

    stop and fix.
     
  13. SkipA

    SkipA Member

    Messages:
    604
    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2002
    Location:
    127.0.0.1
    Shooter:
    Multi Format
    I process as jorj does, except I use the Kodak D-94 developer. I use the same R-9 bleach that jorj lists above. However, for 7266, Kodak now recommends the D-94A developer with R-10 bleach. The R-10 bleach is a permanganate bleach that is incompatible with the thiocyanate in the D-94 developer, so be sure to use D-94A if you use the permanganate bleach.

    You can find the D-94A, R-10, and D-95 formulas here:
    Processing KODAK Motion Picture Films, Module 15 Processing Black-and-White Films
    The above also has processing information and formulas for negative processing.

    See also this thread:

    Kodak D94 incompatible with R10 bleach?



    The D-94 / R-9 / D-95 process given by Kodak is for processing reversal movie film at 20C (68F):

    First Developer, 2 min at 20C (68F)
    Wash, 30 seconds (plain water, do NOT use a stop bath)
    Bleach, 50 seconds
    Wash, 30 seconds
    Clearing Bath, 30 seconds
    Wash, 30 seconds
    Reexposure, 800 foot-candle seconds
    Second Developer, 50 seconds
    Wash, 30 seconds
    Fixer, 50 seconds
    Wash, 2 minutes

    Formulas:

    Kodak D-94


    Water, 50 degrees C (125 F) 750 ml
    Kodak Elon (Metol) 0.6 g
    Sodium Sulfite (anhydrous) 50.0 g
    Hydroquinone 20.0 g
    Potassium Bromide (anhydrous) 8.0 g
    (or 7.0 g Sodium Bromide)
    Sodium Thiocyanate (liquid) 9.1 ml
    Sodium Hydroxide 20.0 g
    Water to make 1.0 L

    Kodak Bleach R-9

    Water 1.0 L
    Potassium Dichromate (anhydrous) 9.5 g
    Sulfuric Acid (Concentrated)* 12.0 ml
    * CAUTION: Always add the sulfuric acid to the solution slowly, stirring
    constantly, and never add the solution to the acid; otherwise, the solution
    may boil and splatter the acid, causing serious burns.

    (Note: I substitute 35.0 ml regular automotive battery acid for the 12.0 ml
    concentrated Sulfuric Acid. I've heard that you can substitute 66g Sodium Bisulfate for the Sulfuric Acid.)

    Kodak Clearing Bath CB-2


    Water 750 ml
    Sodium Sulfite (anhydrous) 210.0 g
    Water to make 1.0 L


    ------------------

    I omitted the D-95 second developer and the F-10 fixer formulas, but you can find them in the Kodak Module 15 document that I linked to above. I just use Dektol 1:3 for the second developer instead of D-95, and I use Kodak F-24 non-hardening fixer instead of F-10. You could probably use any fixer.