Proper way to face multiple prints together in developing trays

Discussion in 'B&W: Film, Paper, Chemistry' started by edd625, Aug 18, 2012.

  1. edd625

    edd625 Member

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    Hi,
    I remember that there is a proper way to lay multiple prints together into the same developing chem trays so they won't stick to each other. So you can dev/fix/etc multiple prints simultaneously Is it emulsion touching emulsion, emulsion touching back side? I know that my teacher had said which way it should be done, but then everybody did it their own way in class.
    Thanks,
    Ed
     
  2. kevs

    kevs Member

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    Hi Ed,

    If the prints are smaller than the tray, place them side-by-side with the emulsion facing upwards. If you place the papers emulsion-to-emulsion they won't develop, stop or fix properly; if you place them face down they could pick up muck from the tray or become abraded by rough surfaces and/or other prints. If you're using fibre-based papers and/or the prints are important, there should be a single print in each tray at any one time. Basically, the more care you take of your prints, the better the end result. Take your time, it's not a race. FB papers damage more easily that RC ones. Been there...

    Cheers and good luck,
    kevs.
     
  3. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    I prefer to develop two prints at once , emulsion out, back to back . this stops wandering fingers hitting the paper to sink into the tray and bruising the print.
    I use wide borders and flip the prints as per Fred Picker reccomendations of good agitation.
     
  4. chamon88

    chamon88 Member

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    Thé only way to devlopping multiple prints at once it's to have all of your print in one hand( 20 sheet
    max) and put them one by one in the devlopper , submerge them with your fingers.That take practice
    but that work well.

    Chamon
     
  5. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    If you like dimple marks all over your prints I agree.
    Hard to sell dimple marks

    QUOTE=chamon88;1381766]Thé only way to devlopping multiple prints at once it's to have all of your print in one hand( 20 sheet
    max) and put them one by one in the devlopper , submerge them with your fingers.That take practice
    but that work well.

    Chamon[/QUOTE]
     
  6. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    hi bob,

    maybe i haven't ever seen a dimple mark, is that what happens when emulsion sticks
    and releases ?

    i would be more worried of emulsion sticking to prints, and not knowing which prints to remove first
    since they weren't all put in all at once or nearly at the same time.

    sometimes when i have to print more than a few, i put paper back to back face to face between fingers
    and submerge them and alternate paired releases ... and then shuffle and rock the tray.

    i used to print huge runs that way, and never had marks or uneven exposure or any troubles ...

    john
     
  7. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    John

    Dimples are caused by immersing a print in developer and when you have the paper back facing you in trays the natural inclination of every worker and student that I have met is to use the fingers and push the paper down into the developer, stop and fix.
    this will cause dimples , plain and simple. I am talking fibre papers here of course and do not have an opinion on RC as I have never used other than contact sheets.
    We see this with every newbie in the darkroom and is the first bad habit I scare out of them.

    You will notice the hesitancy to touch the emulsion of the print , but quite willing to touch the paper backing. This is why when I am doing finals , I use a wide border and do two prints at a time with the paper backing touching each other and emulsion out.
    As Fred Picker wisely stated , I flip the prints and make sure I am not dragging the paper on the bottom of the tray.. I use lots of chemistry's
    probably more than many here. I find the chemistry the cheapest part of printing.

    regards

    Bob
     
  8. jnanian

    jnanian Advertiser Advertiser

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    hi bob

    luckily i haven't had that problem (knock wood ).
    it is always enlightening to hear how, darkroom gurus, people who print every day, all day ... make art.

    thanks for the explanation ..

    john
     
  9. Simon R Galley

    Simon R Galley Subscriber

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    The way I used to do it was pretty easy, up to 50 at a time ( have done more, all RC of course and all from the same or similar negs ). 20 x 16 Stainless steel dish, very full, in a 24 x 20 water bath of cold water to slow the action of the dev, 3 to 4 mins dev time, Emulsion down, press in the middle of the sheet, immerse all the prints, one every couple of seconds, then take the bottom print to the top, spin it to emulsion up in the same movement and repeat until developed...when you are fully developed, water rinse then throw in the fix...again one every couple of seconds.

    I would like to say I used gloves, but I did'nt, or tongs, which is impossible.....apart from rather brown sides to my nails at the time I do not seem to have suffered any damage fortuanately.

    Rarely had to reprint any...

    Simon ILFORD photo / HARMAN technology Limited :
     
  10. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    No damage from no gloves .. what about the impulse to order mushy peas every time you enter a restaurant? that has to be from some brain damage or your taste buds were destroyed.

     
  11. ROL

    ROL Member

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    I'd say this is much ado about nothing, except that it apparently isn't. Papers do tend to stick together until entirely wetted and at least partially saturated (fiber). Devote at least one smooth bottom tray for developing only and prevent the bottom from gouges and scratches, particularly if plastic.

    I develop up to 6 11x14's, 5 16x20's, and 4 20x24's at a time without problems in 28x34 trays. But, there is a method. Normally, dependent on the make of paper, I insert all papers into the developer face down, because of the paper's curl, one at a time, one on top of the other until sufficiently wetted, with constant agitation. Then each paper is turned upside down as the curl relaxes. This is all done with tongs, once in the developer. At this point, all face up, each paper will swim on its own, if agitated, due to the slippery nature of alkali developers. Each print is then withdrawn one at a time into the stop (water), and then fix, watching the clock, first in first out, with constant agitation.

    I recommend tongs, for smaller prints, up to 20x24, unless you can keep your hands very clean, with hand washing between each station. Large size roll paper is developed one at a time, entirely face up, with hands, to prevent the wet, heavy paper from breaks and crimps (self-gripping tongs won't hold).

    Oh, and I almost forgot. Did I mention agitation? :whistling:



    P.S. Print processing is a technical process, not an artistic enterprise. One can (batch) process as many as possible if done with some planning and care. Any paper, fiber or RC, that cannot handle the normal rigors of processing, should either be avoided, if possible, or handled with accordant care.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 20, 2012
  12. Simon R Galley

    Simon R Galley Subscriber

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    Dear Bob,

    You are speaking to one of the very few Englishmen who consider mushy pea's the food of the devil and to be avoided at all costs!

    I would never trust putting anything in my mouth that was that green, some of this stuff in some places is bordering on flourescent.......

    I do not go in for 'nostalgia' that much but where I was brought up, Cullercoats / Tynemouth in North East England we had some fabulous Fish and Chip shops, and if I am up there I always revisit one in Tynemouth called Marshalls, it was great when I was young and it still is...they never used to sell mushy pea's, but they do now, they will also put curry sause on your chip's, did'nt when I was a lad, well thats progress I suppose, the most exotic it got was when I was young was when they started offering sausages...it got in the local paper ! you also got your food wrapped in that local newspaper, true recycling, and something to read whilst you ate!

    As far as I am concerned, the English contribution to world cuisine is indeed the chip...and a truly noble thing it is done well.

    I fully appreciate any French people reading this may ( with possibly some justification ) may claim 'prior art' in relation to the 'chip'

    Bit of translation required here....

    A Chip is a Chip not a crisp
    A French fry is a posh name for a Chip...



    Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :
     
  13. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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  14. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    Any thoughts on "Bubble N' Squeak"? :whistling:
     
  15. Simon R Galley

    Simon R Galley Subscriber

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    Yup.... very fond of "bubble and squeak".......

    Undoubtedly, the boxing day lunch of cold turkey and B&S is miles better than Christmas day lunch...and a lot less effort, which is why I have been known to don the cooking apron, but only on boxing day, b&s does have some UK regional variations, our 'family' B&S is cold mashed potato's and carrot and neep ( swede ) mixed together roughly then fried with butter salt and pepper, I have seen such abborations as other crushed cold veggies being added ( especially in the south ) in some cases even cabbage and the true veg of the devil... brussel sprouts... if ever a true reason why GM should be allowed to flourish it is to genectically modify the brussel sprout out of existence...truly hideous.

    Is this just the start? ...do we have a new section on APUG? is food the new photography? instead of a Michelin star do we now have the ILFORD star ? or is just August, the silly season...

    Simon ILFORD Photo / HARMAN technology Limited :
     
  16. MattKing

    MattKing Subscriber

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    Simon:

    Must be the Kodak in me - gently steamed brussell sprouts with a touch of butter and lemon are wonderful!

    But don't overcook them!
     
  17. Bob Carnie

    Bob Carnie Subscriber

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    Gently is the key.. My grandmother from Wales boiled them to mush and I detested them for years.